Is taking BH4 a problem for COMT++ ?

[Oci]

Yeah, so all these multivitamins and methylation protocols, when I look at them I see why people get worse sometimes. If you take folate or methylB12 and you have no issues with the folate cycle you will create too much BH4 and then create too many catecholamines making you feel worse.

I am going to go through these ingredients one by one someday and show you the concern i have over taking multis like this.

One Capsule Contains:
Thiamin (as Thiamin HCl) 40 mg.
Riboflavin (25 mg as Riboflavin and 3.6 mg as Riboflavin 5'-Phosphate Sodium) 28.6 mg.
Niacin (as Niacinamide) 80 mg.
Vitamin B6 (20 mg as Pyridoxine HCl and 3.4 mg as Pyridoxal 5'-Phosphate) 23.4 mg.
Folate (200 mcg as Calcium Folinate and 200 mcg as L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolate from L-5-Methyltetrahydrofolic Acid, Glucosamine Salt) 400 mcg.
Vitamin B12 (300 mcg as Adenosylcobalamin and 300 mcg as Methylcobalamin) 600 mcg.
Biotin 80 mcg.
Pantothenic Acid (as Calcium Pantothenate) 45 mg.
Choline Citrate 40 mg.[/QUOTE]

Just wondering if you have similar concerns about Yasko's All-in-One Multivitamin? And her Ultimate B Complex?

Thanks for all the very enlightening information you have posted! Oci

 

[ahmo]

@Oci ppodhajski hasn't been posting for some time.

 

[Kathevans]

@ ahmo Too bad for us!

 

[Oci]

@Oci ppodhajski hasn't been posting for some time.

Sorry to hear. I think his Snps were similar to mine and so I was very interesting in his ideas.

 

[ahmo]

@Kathevans @Oci When he posted that he was leaving, I wrote a pm begging him to stay. Really interesting ideas. I don't know how he gathered his experience, but he referred to others he'd been working with..I'm grateful that all his posts didn't disappear, as it first appeared. You can search by his name and see what comes up.

 

[Kathevans]

@ahmo Yes, I've stalked him in just this way! I agree he has some great ideas.

If memory serves, I had the sense that he knew of/ may have studied with some researchers at the University of North Carolina. But maybe I'm making this up!

 

[Critterina]

Very interesting and thanks for the lists. I am very careful about not eating leftovers after second day as I feel the amines can contribute to migraines. I will look at the lists more closely. Actually, touch wood, migraines are getting more and more infrequent.

I live in Toronto and there are Chloramines in te drinking water. I have a whole house filter for chlorine and also 3 cartridge filters on the kitchen sink....one being for fluoride.

Will filters take out the amine part of the chloramine or will it be left after the chlorine is filtered out?

If I take more Riboflavin will I be able to better handle amines?

Many thanks, Oci

Oci,

Very sorry to hear about the chloramine in your drinking water! I called my municipal water supplier because I had symptoms that could have been caused by chloramines, but thankfully, they do not use them. I also reacted to leftover cooked meats. It turned out that I was suffering (and that's not too strong a word) from Histamine Intolerance. I was wondering if you have looked into that. One of the odd things about HI is that people have a whole lot of different symptoms, so matching symptoms is not a accurate as matching triggers.

Amines include amino acids, of which proteins are a subset (there are other amines). Do you react to all proteins the same? Maybe a subset of amines is your problem. I needed riboflavin, too, according to my NutrEval, but supplementing it didn't help my HI.

PM me if you want to talk about this further. I don't want to hijack this thread.

Critterina

 

[Critterina]

@Oci,

http://www.purewaterproducts.com/articles/removing-chloramines

Says that contrary to urband legend, several things work to remove chloramines. The fluoride filter wasn't mentioned, but hefty carbon filters were.

Crit.

 

[ppodhajski]

Just want to give a shout out that I am back after a bit of alone time to research on myself with no distractions. Finally think I figured out the balance of macro and micro nutrients I need to be stable.

@ahmo - Very glad to hear how the FMN is working for you! I have some updates and new thoughts that I will be posting about shortly. But one gene you might want to check out in the meantime, thioredoxin reductase TXNRD1, TXNRD2, TXNRD3. It is an antioxidant recycler gene like GPX.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@ppodhajski welcome back, and I can't wait to read about your findings!

 

[juniemarie]

Hurray @ppodhajski is back! I too am looking forward to your updates.

 

[Oci]

Me too!

 

[ahmo]

@ppodhajski

re TXNRD, I have 4x snps on TXNRD1, of which 3 are homo; 2 homo on TXNRD3, and 5x hetero on 2. Thanks, will look further into this. as in, now what?? I just started new antioxidants yesterday, French melon for SOD. seems helpful, felt quite good.

 

[Gondwanaland]

TXNRD1, of which 3 are homo; 2 homo on TXNRD3, and 5x hetero on 2

We gotta find out which ones are +/+ or -/- ...

 

[Kathevans]

Oh no! I've got to re-learn how to look these up! (But I am happy you're back @ppodhajski)

 

[ahmo]

We gotta find out which ones are +/+ or -/- ...

We do? then what??
TXNRD1: rs17202060(C;C); rs6539137(T;T); rs4630362(C;C)
TXNRD3: rs11718498(A;A); rs9637365(C;C)

 

[ppodhajski]

In my opinion it is best to use Promethease.

Do a search for just TXNRD, then in the right settings box sort the results by "Frequency". The results will list the rarest SNPs first.

What I have been finding is a link between the amount of rare SNPs and links to health issues. Since most diseases are rare, this makes intuitive sense to me. Plus, the research usually does not look at every SNP so in this way we might pick up on a SNP that the research missed. The SNPs @ahmo provided are not all listed in promethease but you might be able to look them up on 23andme.

For you @ahmo, TXNRD1 rs6539137(T;T); rs4630362(C;C) are good. rs17202060 is not listed in 23andme.
I am making assumptions here that TXNRD3 rs11718498(A;A) is slow and rs9637365(C;C) is normal. I need to see that full study to make certain.

TXNRD uses FAD (a form of riboflavin) as a cofactor and depends on selenium because it is a selenoprotein. I seem to have a need for selenium and riboflavin in other genes (GPX, MAO) so I take them both.

http://www.uniprot.org/uniprot/Q9NNW7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15792362



Note that this TXNRD2 gene is mitochondrial. 1 and 3 are in the cytoplasm. For that reason I see TXNRD2 as more interesting in relation to CFS.

This might be of interest: On Mercury and Selenium
http://www.undeerc.org/fish/pdfs/Selenium-Mercury.pdf

 

[ahmo]

he SNPs @ahmo provided are not all listed in promethease.
rs17202060 is not listed in 23andme.

I got those values from promethease. Not listed in 23andme? Then how do I have those results?

TXNRD uses FAD (a form of riboflavin) as a cofactor and depends on selenium

Yay FMN! I also take selenium, + Brazil nuts.

I see TXNRD2 as more interesting in relation to CFS.

Mine are all hetero here. Good to know my TXNRD1 are +.

If you don't have it, Firefox addon snptips sets your browser up so that when rs numbers that match yours appear, they are highlighted.

 

[Wickie]

Yeah, so all these multivitamins and methylation protocols, when I look at them I see why people get worse sometimes. If you take folate or methylB12 and you have no issues with the folate cycle you will create too much BH4 and then create too many catecholamines making you feel worse.

I had a crash some weeks ago trying a methylation protocol and I am asking myself what the reason was.

I am +/+ for COMT V158M, H62H and MAO-A, -/- for MAO-B.

Did I have too much BH4 or too much SAMe? Who knows?

Blood tests show normal Serotonin and low Dopamine levels. A low BH4 level might be good for my MAO-A disposition but also bad for dopamine levels.

I often have the situation that my body pumps out Adrenalin and is not able to get rid of it. So all of my energy is burned until I am totally exhausted.

Any ideas how to improve that?

 

[Wickie]

I hear this time and again from people taking "products" of pathways instead of taking cofactors that help the enzyme make the product.

I do not take product for the reason you experienced. They work until the do not. The reason why it stops working is an inhibitory feedback mechanism.

Feedback inhibition of methylene-tetrahydrofolate reductase in rat liver by S-adenosylmethionine
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0005274467901404
It has nothing to do with catecholamines.

It might be a good idea taking cofactors to enzymes instead of products.

But FMN activates MAO-A and MAO-B. In my case it would help MAO-A, but that might cause a dopamine deficiency because of MAO-B -/-. What should I do?

Regarding SAMe, isn't it a cofactor to COMT too?

I tried Riboflavin-5-phosphat from pure by taking the powder out of the capsule into my mouth, but it tasted horrible!
How is the sublingual product from Source Naturals?