August 8th, 2018: Understanding and Remembrance Day for Severe ME
Have you heard of our Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance? Please join Jody Smith in observing this day and honoring the 25% of those with ME/CFS who are most severely ill.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Is CFS caused by brain infection?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by tiredowl, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,096
    Likes:
    1,179
    Austria
    most simply like this: @tiredowl - for that person to receive a notification.
     
  2. jake45

    jake45

    Messages:
    16
    Likes:
    4
    I wouldn't trust just one study especially on something as complicated as this. is there more studies?
     
  3. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,506
    Likes:
    1,140
    I don't follow... are you saying that steroid spray are linked to ME or rosacea is linked to ME?
     
  4. Raven Mom

    Raven Mom

    Messages:
    42
    Likes:
    117
    Ontario, Canada
    hi there, @ebethc~*~* it's my impression based on readings from a while back (--which is to say, not a hard and fast truth claim & I certainly can't cite a source, etc--.) that chronic illnesses with major inflammatory component all increase your risk factor to develope rosacea.....steroid use definitely ups the risk, so my comment was just to caution the person to examine how many of their circumstances might factor in so they weren't toying with that particular fire if there were an alternative treatment. (it seems fish & flax oils are beneficial in both conditions -not sure if evening primrose is ever used with ME/CFS- and also alcohol intake frequently not tolerated in either condition), if you have contrary inklings, I wouldn't dispute them... substantial variation in both afflictions, suggesting generalities can only stretch so far...
     
    ebethc likes this.
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes:
    18,176
    If you look at the three brain autopsy studies on ME/CFS patients detailed here, which each found enterovirus infection in the brain tissues, that adds considerable evidence to the brain infection hypothesis of ME/CFS.
     
  6. keenly

    keenly Senior Member

    Messages:
    683
    Likes:
    719
    UK
    Dr Cheney would agree with this, and he is leaning towards hhv6
     
  7. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    199
    Midwest, USA
    @Hip - theoretically, Equilibrant would have helped mitigate these enterovirus infections per Dr. John Chia correct?
     
  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes:
    18,176
    Yes, theoretically oxymatrine should fight enterovirus brain infections, although it is almost impossible to get direct evidence of this, as you cannot really biopsy the brain of a living person in the same way as you can biopsy their stomach tissues, to see if the infection is reduced after oxymatrine treatment.

    Oxymatrine treatment has been shown to greatly reduce enterovirus infection in the stomach (see the last image in this post, which shows stomach tissue enterovirus infections before and after oxymatrine treatment).
     
    sb4 likes this.
  9. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    199
    Midwest, USA
    Thanks @Hip - and Oxymatrine is in Equilibrant, which Dr. Chia uses mainly? Or is that off-base?
     
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes:
    18,176
    Oxymatrine is the primary ingredient of Equilibrant; the other ingredients in Equilibrant by comparison have only a minor effect.
     
  11. Alesh

    Alesh Senior Member

    Messages:
    184
    Likes:
    14
    Czech Republic, EU
    As an update I had cultivation from my nose done and they found Klebsiella Variicola, which is a relatively recently discovered pathogen. I was given clarithromycine, then cefuroxime and topical tobramycine but so far to no avail. My neurologist assured me that it is just an opportunistic infection with no connection to my ME but who can tell, nothing is as it should be in this shitty disease.
     
    ebethc likes this.
  12. Tammy

    Tammy Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,195
    Likes:
    1,668
    New Mexico
    I think the other ingredients are just as important................licorice root is a really good anti-viral and strengthens adrenals and kidneys. Olive leaf kills viruses, fungi, bacteria and promotes blood circulation. Astragalus strengthens the immune system and the whole endocrine system.
     
    Sancar likes this.
  13. Dakota15

    Dakota15 Senior Member

    Messages:
    117
    Likes:
    199
    Midwest, USA
    @Alesh can I ask how you had a cultivation done? I'm not familiar with this process / testing method.
     
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,921
    Likes:
    18,176
    Dr Chia says the response rate of oxymatrine is 52% for enterovirus-associated ME/CFS patients, and the response rate for Equilibrant is just a few percent higher at 56% (see this post); so it seems that all the extra immunomodulatory ingredients in Equilibrant such as Astragalus, olive leaf extract and shiitake mushroom only have a marginal extra effect over oxymatrine, although they do help a little bit.

    Though sometimes Dr Chia finds Equilibrant is too strong for some patients to take, so he then switches them to oxymatrine on its own.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page