Instantaneous effect from Methylfolate/B12?

[Freddd]

Absolutely. I'd say one of my biggest problems is not pain, or fatigue, but motivation. I can't seem to do things that I claim to want to do and that are oh-so-straightforward. It's more than mere fatigue, it feels like a weird sort of depression? Listlessness more than anguish or anhedonia. Procrastination and escapism ensue. B12 and methylfolate have both on occasions 'switched me on' and suddenly my todo list is a no-brainer and I'm up and doing things without any thought.

Story of my life.

Hi Forbius,

I've been doing a lot of reading recently. Based on that, I would say that executive functioning and many of these are a result of some damage done by low AdoCbl/Carnitine. Again, I think that this can be worked through starting with the same marking up of the list I mentioned in previous post and also marking which items are affected sometimes by the specific supplements.

 

[forbius]

Hi Forbius,

I've been doing a lot of reading recently. Based on that, I would say that executive functioning and many of these are a result of some damage done by low AdoCbl/Carnitine. Again, I think that this can be worked through starting with the same marking up of the list I mentioned in previous post and also marking which items are affected sometimes by the specific supplements.

I have long suspected my basal ganglia and my spinal cord as the first things to suffer.

I found your last sentence hard to follow. Are you saying there's a special thread I need to look at?

If it's not too much to ask, is there a good starting point that might lead me to the same conclusion as you on adonosyl-b12 and carnitine?

Sounds very very familiar, @forbius. I escaped my anhedonia (don't you envy people who've never even heard of that word!?) once I came out of my post-divorce depression, but motivation, focus, procrastination, etc have **ALWAYS** been major challenges for me. I believe they are hallmarks of non-hyper ADD. Get a good ADD book (I liked "Driven to Distraction") and see if you recognize yourself in the descriptions.

B12 didn't help my ADD but it helped other things hugely. Wish I could figure out how to "switch myself on" !

It is rough, isn't it? Although there are worse things to have. About the only desire I can muster when feeling this way, is the desire to not feel this way. Hmm, actually that's not quite right... you know what always strikes me about it? A feeling of hypocrisy. A constant claiming of wanting to do X, Y and Z, but somehow never getting around to them and placing other things in front of them. I'm not sure if it's a terrible anxiety surrounding doing said things, or a feeling that I'm somehow not worth the investment of effort. Maybe a mixture of both.

Since I don't think a thinking error is at the root of it, I suppose it doesn't matter. It's a physical problem, the psychological effect is just a byproduct.

 

[Freddd]

I have long suspected my basal ganglia and my spinal cord as the first things to suffer.

I found your last sentence hard to follow. Are you saying there's a special thread I need to look at?

If it's not too much to ask, is there a good starting point that might lead me to the same conclusion as you on adonosyl-b12 and carnitine?

It is rough, isn't it? Although there are worse things to have. About the only desire I can muster when feeling this way, is the desire to not feel this way.

I have read more than 20 articles in the last week on the subject. These symptoms, and many more, come up in articles discussing symptoms and damage that accompany high MMA. High MMA is a surrogate measurement for B12 deficiency. In CblC disease many variations, have elevated MMA with entirely normal serum b12 levels. Elevated MMA comes with low carnitine and/or AdoCbl. It also deadlocks the methylation half of the DQ. In any case the "high" amounts are so high that the damage is already done before the danger is even flagged. There isn't a special thread on that but I am going to start one. Spinal cord damage also occurs and is called Sub Acute Combined degeneration or many other names depending where it happens. The motor neurons which can be more sensitive to these deficiencies are involved in ALS for instance.

 

[garyfritz]

I'll look forward to that, @Freddd. I've been wondering if I should get my MMA levels checked.

Since I don't think a thinking error is at the root of it, I suppose it doesn't matter. It's a physical problem, the psychological effect is just a byproduct.

And "normal" people just can't understand that. Teachers and parents think ADD kids are just lazy.

My brother was a teacher, and a type-A personality. He pretty much blamed me for being lazy, and asked "Why don't you just get organized and get stuff done!?" So I asked him "And why don't you just read a damn book??" (He's dyslexic.) I think he got the point that he's not the only one with challenges that aren't just a matter of "choice." I told my ex (another hyper-productive person) that I can't control this any more than she can choose not to be depressed.

If I really fight it I can make some headway, but it's like swimming underwater. I can't keep it up and I slip back into the same old patterns. So it would be awesome if some B12-related regimen could help.

 

[forbius]

I have read more than 20 articles in the last week on the subject. These symptoms, and many more, come up in articles discussing symptoms and damage that accompany high MMA. High MMA is a surrogate measurement for B12 deficiency. In CblC disease many variations, have elevated MMA with entirely normal serum b12 levels. Elevated MMA comes with low carnitine and/or AdoCbl. It also deadlocks the methylation half of the DQ. In any case the "high" amounts are so high that the damage is already done before the danger is even flagged. There isn't a special thread on that but I am going to start one. Spinal cord damage also occurs and is called Sub Acute Combined degeneration or many other names depending where it happens. The motor neurons which can be more sensitive to these deficiencies are involved in ALS for instance.

I understand the role of adenosyl-b12 in MMA metabolism, but not carnitine. Could it be something other than inadequate carnitine depending on the person?

What's 'DQ'? I assume you're saying that adenosyl-b12 deficiency indirectly subverts 1-carbon metabolism. I'd be interested to know how these are linked.

One other thing--what demarks reversible damage from the irreversible kind? Is it to do with scar-tissue replacing myelin, or killing nerves out-right? Obviously the concept of permanent damage is a cause for greater anxiety than the sort that can be reversed. I'm hoping there's things we don't know about this yet and it might be possible to reverse alleged irreversable damage. There are compounds that promote neuronal growth, I'm hoping an answer might be found there.

 

[Freddd]

Here is the symptoms list.

SYMPTOMS LIST 01/03/2014 V 1.0

In this post this is a list of symptoms that are mine, and others experience of these nutritional items in relieving their symptoms, and in a very few instances reflect research and successful practice, such as p5p for Hcy and Liver extract studies of several disorders in old journals. In some instances the same symptoms might have different combinations of nutrients.

These symptoms responded almost entirely or entirely with basics 5 star MeCbl – methylcobalamin – Methylb12 - Mb12 - Mecobl . Many started improving in hours. Others took 9 months to correct.

morning joint stiffness and pain
paleness
acid reflux
nausea
daily vomiting
standing with eyes closed, lose balance
hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity - glove anesthesia
feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity - stocking anesthesia
glove and stocking anesthesia
neuropathic bladder
unable to release bladder, mild to severe
unable to fully empty the bladder
fecal incontinence - occasionally to frequently
diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
tinnitus - ringing in ears
always feeling cold
intolerance to loud sounds
intolerance to multiple sounds
sleep disorders
non restorative sleep
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnagogic or hypnopompic states transitioning to/from sleep
Sleep paralysis
alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
alterations and loss of taste
taste hallucinations
smell hallucinations
sound hallucinations
visual hallucinations
alterations and loss of smell
loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth it in mid word
blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return
Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
optic atrophy
centrocecal scotomata
hypersensitivity/intolerance to bright light
intolerance to loud sounds
intolerance to multiple sounds
burning muscle pain
diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
tinnitus - ringing in ears
sore burning tongue

This is a list of symptoms that are mine, and others experience of these nutritional items in relieving their symptoms, and in a very few instances reflect research and successful practice, such as p5p for Hcy and Liver extract studies of several disorders in old journals. In some instances the same symptoms might have different combinations of nutrients.

These symptoms responded strongly first to 5 star MeCbl and then Metafolin with basics. Many started improving in hours. Some took 7 years to correct.

Bursitis
stomach not emptying
frequent vomiting
acid regurgitation
dyspepsia
flatulence
altered bowel habits
abdominal pain
loss of appetite for meat, fish, eggs, dairy, the only b12 containing foods
nutrient specific anorexia
intermittent constipation
intermittent diarrhea
irritable bowel syndrome
sores, ulcers and lesions along entire GI tract or any part
anorexia
Bulimia
Hypersensitivity to touch
Hypersensitivity to odors
Hypersensitivity to tastes
Hypersensitivity to clothing texture
Hypersensitivity to body malfunctions, symptoms
Hypersensitivity to sounds and noises
Hypersensitivity to light and visual stimuli
Hypersensitivity to blood sugar changes
Hypersensitivity to internal metabolic changes
Hypersensitivity to temperature changes
burning bladder (no UTI)
painful urgency (no UTI)
burning urethra (no UTI)
Low blood serum level - below 550pg/ml, Japanese Standard
elevated MCH (Mean Corpuscular Hemoglobin)
elevated LDH
big fat red cells (when said this way usually with happy or healthy modifying it completely misinterpreting results of MCV
platelet dysfunction, low count
white cell changes, low count
hyper segmented neutrophils
headaches
inflamed epithelial tissues - mucous membranes, skin, GI, vaginal, lungs
inflamed endothelial tissues - lining of veins and arteries
mucous becomes thick, jellied and sticky
asthma
chronic cough that mimics asthma but isn't
chronic sinus congestion
dermatitis herpetiformis, chronic intensely burning itching rash
frequent infected follicles or acne type lesions all over body
chronic infections, many varieties possible
Seborrhic dermatitis
dandruff
eczema
dermatitis
skin on face, hands, feet, turns brown or yellow if anemia occurs
poor hair condition
thin nails
transverse ridges on nails, can happen as healing starts
mouth sensitive to hot and cold
sore burning tongue
beef-red tongue, possibly smoother than normal
sore mouth, no infection or apparant reason
teeth sensitive to hot and cold
canker sores


with p5p added

Elevated blood serum Hcy, borderline or higher


These symptoms responded relatively partially first to 5 star MeCbl and then very strongly to Metafolin with basics. Many started improving in hours. Some took 7 years to correct.




splits/sores at corners of mouth -angular cheilitis
impaired white blood cell response
poor resistance to infections
easy bruising
pronounced anemia
macrocytic anemia
megablastic anemia
pernicious anemia
decreased blood clotting
MCV > 93 first warning,
MCV > 97 alert
MCV > 100 outright macrocytosis
MCV > 105 urgently needs treatment, severe problem

Plus Vitamin E
Child with neural tube defects

mother of child with neural tube defect

These symptoms responded not at all first to 5 star and then very strongly to Metafolin with basics. Many started improving in hours. Some took 7 years to correct.


lack of dreaming
MCV > 100 outright macrocytosis
macrocytic anemia
metallic taste in mouth
Widespread body & muscle pain responding to NSAID
Joint pain responding to NSAIDS
splits/sores at corners of mouth -angular cheilitis


Sexual related symptoms, both men and women – These responded with the most response to lesser responses in order to MeCbl, Metafolin (l-methylfolate), AdoCbl, L-carnitine fumarate

reduced libido - loss of sexual desire
loss of orgasmic intensity
unsatisfying orgasms
inability to orgasm
loss and/or change of genital sensations
burning genital skin sensation
unable to feel aroused
numb genital skin
low sex hormones

MEN

In order of response – MeCbl, AdoCbl
low testosterone men

In order of response – MeCbl, Metafolin, AdoCbl, L-carnitine fumarate
erectile disfunction men

In order of response – MeCbl, Metafolin, AdoCbl
low sperm count
poor sperm motility
Poor sperm quality
no sperm


WOMEN

In order of response – MeCbl, AdoCbl
low testosterone
low estrogen

In order of response – MeCbl, Metafolin, AdoCbl, L-carnitine fumarate
post partum depression
post partum psychosis

In order of response – MeCbl, Metafolin, AdoCbl
Frequent miscarriage

In order of response – MeCbl, Metafolin
False positive pap smears, defective cells
menstrual symptoms


Approximate timing of my startup of individual items that being considered here, this gives a quite distinctive pattern for each nutrient or set of nutrients: 03/04/13, Version 1.1

Others mentioned similar patterns and variations.

1. Initially – Mecbl

2. +5 months 400mcg SAM-E

3. + 4 months AdoCbl

4. + 3 months titrate +50mg zinc

5. +4 years 400mcg Metafolin

6. +1 year LCF

7. + 1 month TMG 1000mg/day

8. 30mg MeCbl injections (3 or 4) daily,

9. +0 Reduce SAM-e to 200mcg

10. + 4 years remove TMG

11. +6 months increase SAM-E to 800mcg

12. Next 1 year titrating Metafolin and finding all the reasons I get folate insufficiency, early partial methylation block by effect.



These symptoms are what responded very well to CNS penetrating doses of MeCbl either as 50mg sublingual single 4-5 hour dose or 4 x 7.5mg or 3 x 10mg or for some 2 x 15mg subcutaneous MeCbl injections. Metafolin in some way enhances retention of AdoCbl and MeCbl with excretion visibly decreased. A sublingual dose of 1-2 tablets each hour added for 12 hours appears to generate substantial CNS penetration as well.



CNS penetrating dose MeCbl – AdoCbl – Metafolin – Omega-3 oils


Elevated CSF Hcy
Low CSF cobalamin
limbs feel stiff
Drowsy


CNS penetrating dose MeCbl – AdoCbl
dimmed vision - usually not noticed going into it because change can be very slow or present for life
Clumsiness


CNS penetrating dose MeCbl – AdoCbl - Metafolin


Slow to adapt to night vision


CNS penetrating dose MeCbl – AdoCbl – Metafolin – LCF


Difficulty in word finding



CNS penetrating dose MeCbl – AdoCbl – Metafolin – Omega-3 oils


Brainstem or cerebellar signs or even reversible (with mb12) coma may occur
demyelinated areas on nerves
subacute combined degeneration
axonal degeneration of spinal cord
unsteadiness of gait
ataxic gait, particularly in dark
positive Romberg
positive Lhermittes
Loss of motor control over some or all of toes
Loss of motor control over part or all of feet
Loss of sense of joint position
sudden electric like shocks/pains shooting down arms, body, legs shooting down from neck movement
sudden "ice pick" pain
decreased reflexes
brisk reflexes
Foot Drop
tripping over toes
injuring toes catching top of toes on floor
general feeling of weakness


Approximate timing of my startup of individual items that being considered here, this gives a quite distinctive pattern for each nutrient or set of nutrients: 03/04/13 Version 1.1

Others mentioned similar patterns and variations.

1. Initially – Mecbl

2. +5 months 400mcg SAM-E

3. + 4 months AdoCbl

4. + 3 months titrate +50mg zinc

5. +4 years 400mcg Metafolin

6. +1 year LCF

7. + 1 month TMG 1000mg/day

8. 30mg MeCbl injections (3 or 4) daily,

9. +0 Reduce SAM-e to 200mcg

10. + 4 years remove TMG

11. +6 months increase SAM-E to 800mcg

12. Next 1 year titrating Metafolin and finding all the reasons I get folate insufficiency, early partial methylation block by effect.


These symptoms are what responded very well to L-carnitine fumarate AND AdoCbl for the first two items


L-carnitine fumarate – AdoCbl – Metafolin - MeCbl


weight loss involuntary
muscular atrophy
exercise does not build muscle



L-carnitine fumarate – Metafolin – AdoCbl - MeCbl

weight gain, watery fat
edema


L-carnitine fumarate – AdoCbl – MeCbl – Metafolin


mild to extremely severe fatigue
continuous extremely severe fatigue
easy fatigability
severe abnormal muscle fatigue up to and including apparent paralysis leading to death
weakness
muscle pain especially around attachment points to bones
Eighteen severely tender muscle spots of FMS



AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate


exercise debilitates for up to a week, making things much worse
accumulating muscle pains following exertion
sore muscles throughout body
lack of muscle recovery after exercise
High urinary MMA



AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate – Metafolin

congestive heart failure
Elevated CSF MMA
Elevated uMMA


Approximate timing of my startup of individual items that being considered here, this gives a quite distinctive pattern for each nutrient or set of nutrients: 03/05/13, Version 1.1

Others mentioned similar patterns and variations.

1. Initially – Mecbl

2. +5 months 400mcg SAM-E

3. + 4 months AdoCbl

4. + 3 months titrate +50mg zinc

5. +4 years 400mcg Metafolin

6. +1 year LCF

7. + 1 month TMG 1000mg/day

8. 30mg MeCbl injections (3 or 4) daily,

9. +0 Reduce SAM-e to 200mcg

10. + 4 years remove TMG

11. +6 months increase SAM-E to 800mcg

12. Next 1 year titrating Metafolin and finding all the reasons I get folate insufficiency, early partial methylation block by effect.





MeCbl - AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate – Metafolin

shortness of breath, oxygen hunger
heart palpitations


MeCbl - AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate

extremely sore neck muscles reversing normal curvature of neck
painfully tight, stiff muscles, especially legs and arms
frequent muscle spasms anywhere in body
weak pulse



MeCbl - AdoCbl

Confusion
Disorientation
Difficulty in word finding


MeCbl - AdoCbl - Metafolin

irritable
depression
SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder
mental slowing
personality changes
chronic malaise
poor concentration
moodiness
tiredness
mood swings
memory loss
listlessness
impaired connection to others
mentally fuzzy, foggy, brainfog
dizziness - even unable to walk
Vertigo


MeCbl – Metafolin – AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate

psychosis, including many of the most florid psychoses seen in literature, megaloblastic madness
Alzheimer's
delirium
dementia
paranoia
delusions
hallucinations - multisensory
anxiety or tension
nervousness
mania
Widespread pain throughout body



A caution, those with anxiety and panic symptoms may respond with extreme moods of increased fear, anxiety, panic, anger rage, homicidal rage and profound depression, usually in repeatable sequences following LCF or ALCAR even at levels of 1mg oral. A micro titration of carnitine would be cautious. While most find the moods intolerable, certain persons have been able to tolerate these (both past) and current, to find they can fade after some months of consumption. A few people may find similar, maybe somewhat lesser, response to MeCbl or more likely AdoCbl. As these are less controllable than LCF which can be micro dosed, they should be considered first.

 

[Freddd]

What's 'DQ'? I assume you're saying that adenosyl-b12 deficiency indirectly subverts 1-carbon metabolism. I'd be interested to know how these are linked.

Deadlock Quartet

MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-Methylfolate and LCF or ALCAR, person dependent.

 

[forbius]

Deadlock Quartet

MeCbl, AdoCbl, L-Methylfolate and LCF or ALCAR, person dependent.

Well, I was hoping you'd also tell me how elevated MMA caused by adenosyl-b12 deficiency deadlocks methylation (presumably you mean methionine recycling by b12?). What reaction bridges these two processes?

 

[minkeygirl]

@Fredd Where is this symptom list? I have serious cog issues so I need something really simple to be even able to look at it. I don't have any program so I would have to hand make a list.

I did just look at my 23andMe results and I have MTHFR A1298C and C677T

Thanks

 

[minkeygirl]

@Fredd just saw the list while I was posting. Beyond the symptoms list there is way too much information for me. My brain just can't process even looking at that much information. I'll work on a symptom list and start from there.

Thanks

 

[minkeygirl]

@Fredd

Red = current worst
Green = current
Blue = past

morning joint stiffness and pain
paleness
acid reflux
nausea
daily vomiting
standing with eyes closed, lose balance (still have but don't stand with eyes closed)
hands feel gloved with loss of sensitivity - glove anesthesia
feet feel socked by loss of sensitivity - stocking anesthesia
glove and stocking anesthesia
neuropathic bladder
unable to release bladder, mild to severe
unable to fully empty the bladder
fecal incontinence - occasionally to frequently
diminished hearing - gradual onset or present for life, sudden return possible
tinnitus - ringing in ears (usually at night, more of an annoyance
always feeling cold
intolerance to loud sounds (bouncing balls drive me insane, any sound really bothers me)
intolerance to multiple sounds (it depends on what they are) Sometimes I can't tolerate music I like
sleep disorders
non restorative sleep
Night terrors
Prolonged hypnagogic or hypnopompic states transitioning to/from sleep
Sleep paralysis
alteration of touch all over body, normal touch can be unpleasant and painful
alterations and loss of taste (salty, was much worse)
taste hallucinations
smell hallucinations
sound hallucinations
visual hallucinations
alterations and loss of smell
loss of smell and taste of strawberries specifically
loss or alteration of smell and taste of potato chips specifically
roughening and increased raspiness of voice, mb12 can smooth it in mid word
blurring of vision - can be sudden onset and sudden return
Visual impairment can be seen; ophthalmological exam may show bilateral visual loss
optic atrophy
centrocecal scotomata
hypersensitivity/intolerance to bright light (any light bothers me)
burning muscle pain
sore burning tongue


I have: That I can think of right now.

IBS-C
Peripheral Neuropathy (feet only)
Mood swings
Constant brain fog and feeling like my eyelids are weighted down
Psoriasis (worsening)
Teeth sensitive to cold
Brain races causing heart palpitations which propranolol stops and stops the racing
Feeling like I can't get air into my lungs (viral?)

 

[Freddd]

Red = current worst
Green = current
Blue = past

What are the ones you left in black? The bottom group looks like yours. With neuropathies can yoiu put down all the different symptoms of neuropathies. It helps telling how they are progressing. Mood swings, from what to what or all over the place. Most of that group are in the list above so I am confused by your post. Can you clarify please?

 

[minkeygirl]

You said leave black things I've never had. I'm confused about what you are confused about.

Is this what you are referring to? If so I have zero of those issues. My anger is a result of some catalyst, usually dealing with an idiot of some sort. Then it goes away. Most of the time I'm pretty even, don't get anxious, have the normal amount of anxiety considering I live alone with no help, no delusion, dementia, paranoia, hallucinations mania and no widespread pain at all.

My neuropathy is cold feet only which started in late 2011.

MeCbl – Metafolin – AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate

psychosis, including many of the most florid psychoses seen in literature, megaloblastic madness
Alzheimer's
delirium
dementia
paranoia
delusions
hallucinations - multisensory
anxiety or tension
nervousness
mania
Widespread pain throughout body

 

[Freddd]

You said leave black things I've never had. I'm confused about what you are confused about.

Is this what you are referring to? If so I have zero of those issues. My anger is a result of some catalyst, usually dealing with an idiot of some sort. Then it goes away. Most of the time I'm pretty even, don't get anxious, have the normal amount of anxiety considering I live alone with no help, no delusion, dementia, paranoia, hallucinations mania and no widespread pain at all.

My neuropathy is cold feet only which started in late 2011.

MeCbl – Metafolin – AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate

psychosis, including many of the most florid psychoses seen in literature, megaloblastic madness
Alzheimer's
delirium
dementia
paranoia
delusions
hallucinations - multisensory
anxiety or tension
nervousness
mania
Widespread pain throughout body

I'm sorry, I'm getting confused too. These ones you mention directly above this line, are they ones you have or ones you don't have?

Also are their cold hands perhaps too. Any changes in color of feet when cold. Have you been diagnosed with neuropathic feet as opposed to other things? Are your teeth sensitive to cold? Heart palpitations? Psoriasis?

 

[minkeygirl]

Your post with the symptom list and all the different combinations of supplements and what the symptoms they could cause was too much for my brain. When you said I seemed to be the last set of symptoms, I asked if you meant the list under MeCbl – Metafolin – AdoCbl – L-carnitine fumarate.

If that is what you meant, I have zero of those symptoms. I'm not sure where we are not understanding each other.

 

[Aerose91]

I can tell you that I'm completely intolerant to mb12. If you feel instant relief from it you are very lucky. Within just minutes of me taking 125 mcg of mb12 I will have such unbearable adrenaline I cannot even explain it. It feels like there's an anvil on my chest, OCD through the roof, teeth grinding and rapid, shallow breathing. The list goes on and this will last for days from Just 1 dose. Once I come off though I crash because of the overexertion and my brain has never recovered from these crashes. =/

I'd say stick to the mb12/methylfolate combo if it works.

 

[minkeygirl]

Is it any mb12 or a specific one?

I and some luck with my mb12 this morning.

I took 1 mg at 4 am and felt calm and in a good mood. Took another mg at 6:30 am. It also seems to clear my some of my brain fog.

I've had that feeling before a few years ago. It doesn't last but better than nothing.

Starting to crash now. Food and more mb12

 

[Freddd]

I can tell you that I'm completely intolerant to mb12. If you feel instant relief from it you are very lucky. Within just minutes of me taking 125 mcg of mb12 I will have such unbearable adrenaline I cannot even explain it. It feels like there's an anvil on my chest, OCD through the roof, teeth grinding and rapid, shallow breathing. The list goes on and this will last for days from Just 1 dose. Once I come off though I crash because of the overexertion and my brain has never recovered from these crashes. =/

I'd say stick to the mb12/methylfolate combo if it works.

Hi Aerose,

I suspect something else is likely happening. However, if you would go through that full list of symptoms and color the ones you have now, another color for the worst ones, I could perhaps give you some ideas. If I am correct, then there may be a way around it. Also a list of all the supplements you are taking. our response makes a lot of sense. I think that these are neuro-psychological effects and they might be modifiable. An extreme response such as yours usually indicates extreme functional deficiencies in certain parts of the brain.


Are you prone to anxiety or panic attacks normally?

I can tell you that I'm completely intolerant to mb12.

In my opinion considering the response as indication of complete intolerance makes it a completely unsolvable problem.

 

[Freddd]

Is it any mb12 or a specific one?

I and some luck with my mb12 this morning.

I took 1 mg at 4 am and felt calm and in a good mood. Took another mg at 6:30 am. It also seems to clear my some of my brain fog.

I've had that feeling before a few years ago. It doesn't last but better than nothing.

Starting to crash now. Food and more mb12

Hi Minkeygirl,

There are only a coup[le of brands of MeCbl that work adequately and even fewer that work with excellence. The brand of MeCbl can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Aerose91]

Hi Aerose,

I suspect something else is likely happening. However, if you would go through that full list of symptoms and color the ones you have now, another color for the worst ones, I could perhaps give you some ideas. If I am correct, then there may be a way around it. Also a list of all the supplements you are taking. our response makes a lot of sense. I think that these are neuro-psychological effects and they might be modifiable. An extreme response such as yours usually indicates extreme functional deficiencies in certain parts of the brain.


Are you prone to anxiety or panic attacks normally?



In my opinion considering the response as indication of complete intolerance makes it a completely unsolvable problem.

Where would I find the list?

I can tell you that this whole disease is in my brain. It started with encephalitis (never found out what the causative virus was) and since then any and all damage and disease progression has been in my brain. Its 90/10 brain/body.

I had a SPECT scan and it showed 9 areas of hypoperfusion. I have yet to find anyone else even close to this.

My whole life prior I never had any anxiety or panic, I was very calm. However, I was given a brief dose of ativan to counter some thyroid medication a fee years ago and I went into absolutely hellacious withdrawal. I have never recovered from it and am now more prone to anxiety due to the increased glutamate in my brain from the ativan. TBH, that pill is whole reason I have ME.

I will track down that list and color code it for you, but I can tell you now that I seem to have the worst psychiatric symptoms of anyone I've seen here.