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Increasing GABA naturally

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by SmokinJoeFraz93, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    I’m attempting to increase my GABA levels naturally with vitamins and herbals. Life is quite difficult at the moment as I’m unable to read, watch TV, tolerate sounds and music or even look out of the window due to what I believe is low GABA levels.

    I have been taking B vitamins, valerian, passionflower, GABA and magnesium for exactly one week. I feel a difference how my brain feels (calmer), however none of the symptoms have lifted, and I’m feeling like my brain is bruised/strained constantly.

    Can anyone give insight as to what may be happening please? Also, how long does it take for GABA levels to restore? Maybe I’m being impatient. any tips are welcome. (Please don’t recommend Klonopin). Thanks.
     
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  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    For GABA, you might look into the herb kava kava, which increases the sensitivity of the GABA receptors.

    However, another approach is to focus on reducing glutamate levels, as glutamate has the opposite effect to GABA (GABA relaxes neurons, whereas glutamate stimulates them). So you can get an equally good calming effect by lowering glutamate as you can by raising GABA.

    Since glutamate is produced in high amounts by brain inflammation, anti-inflammatories that target the brain may help. See here.


    None of the above may be the source of the sound sensitivity though. For sound sensitivity, I found the French dopamine stabilizer drug amisulpride reasonably effective. See here. This drug works on dopamine D2 and D3 receptors, suggesting that these are involved in sound sensitivity.
     
  3. LINE

    LINE Senior Member

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    Best thing for me is Gaba Calm by Source Naturals (<$12). I noticed a result within 30m of taking, I tried a multitude of things btw.
     
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  4. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    I forgot to mention I’m taking glutamic acid also. I’ve read that Kava Kava is toxic for the liver and can kill people?
     
  5. kurt

    kurt Senior Member

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    Valerian has a paradoxical effect on some CFS patients. I am one of those. It acts like a stimulant. It bothers me. I would never take valerian to calm down. It gives me a feeling like what you described, like the brain is getting wiped out. I agree with the other advice. Have done much of it. Try to decrease glutamate. Sometimes B6 can help with that. Also, GABA Calm is a great product.
     
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  6. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    I’ve just realized I’m taking glutamic acid, yet I probably have high levels of glutamate! No wonder why my brain is feeling bruised and having horrible headaches.
     
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  7. Mary

    Mary Moderator

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    Yeah, I would stop the glutamic acid (also known as glutamate) immediately.

    Re Kava Kava - the claims of liver toxicity appear to be grossly overstated. The source of KK is important as well - it should be made just from the roots of the plant, but some products contain stems and leaves and the stems and leaves can cause problems. So you would need to check what any products consists of. I'm using a tincture I got at my health food store for sleep -it's very mild, I think it helps a little. I did check with the manufacturer who assured me it was derived from the roots only and I've never had any problem with it. I don't take a lot either.

    Here's one article: https://www.innovativelifestyles.co...-behind-claims-of-liver-toxicity-and-kava-use

    It notes that acetaminophen (Tylenol) is much more toxic. Tylenol is the leading cause of acute liver failure. It sends tens of thousands to the ER every year but you don't hear all the hysteria about tylenol that you do about kava kava.
     
  8. LINE

    LINE Senior Member

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    Magnesium plays a key role in the glutamate/GABA struggle. Calcium somehow works with glutamate, and if I remember correctly, assists the glutamate to become unleashed. Magnesium has the opposite effect, that is keeps glutamate at bay.
     
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  9. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    Thanks. I’ve just started taking magnesium.
     
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  10. ahmo

    ahmo Senior Member

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    Have you tried GABA amino?
     
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  11. vision blue

    vision blue Senior Member

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    I am also in a state of sympathetic nervous system excess that will not shut off appropriately and have similar symptoms (but others as well you have not mentioned) . Is there a particular reason you implicate GABA and not another source? Have you had a blood test for metenephrines? (mine are at 1.5 times normal). Might be broadening pursuit of how to turn it off may be of use- if you do have sympathetic exces/parasympathetic not turning on. Try this- try to induce a yawning jag and see if it changes your symptoms any. But there are plenty of other things to try for relief.
    What tests have u had?
    and of course if you learn tips on how to get rid of the "overstimulation", please do share them!!!

    (p.s. just read more of other peoples replies and your reply- if i took glutamic acid, it would kill me! i cna't even use it as a cream (reduced glutathione), but i'm also major senstive to bigogenic amines especially tyramine which contributes to my overstimulation)
     
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  12. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Amisulpride sounds wortha try. I’m trying kava too. The noise sensitivity is awful as I loved to listen to music it was my lifeline. Vertigo seems easier to treat pharmacologically. I’m also trying some good kava and kratom soon
     
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  13. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Progesterone, phenibut, maybe
     
  14. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    I feel your pain, man!
     
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  15. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    I use the prescription Baclofen before bed to help with both pain and sleep. It works on Gaba-B.

    Every other night, I use Neurogistics Gaba+, which is 100 MG of Phenibut. I know you have to be careful with this supplement, but I have no problems with it, and it helps with sleep. I would never use it every night. I have read of people using shockingly high doses of Phenibut, and apparently, they can get some serious dependency problems.

    I don't remember what it was specifically, but my genetic test did show some kind of Gaba mutation.
     
  16. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    Thanks for your input :) I’m going to give Kava-Kava a go and see where it gets me.
     
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  17. YippeeKi YOW !!

    YippeeKi YOW !! Senior Member

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    Second star to the right ...
    @SmokinJoeFraz93
    If you're feeling calmer, believe me, it isn't the valerian and passion flower that's doing it, at least in my experience with them. They stimulate and down-regulate the GABAa receptors and caused me a lotttttt of problems. Oral GABA has a hard time crossing the BBB, so I doubt that's it either. My money's on the magnesium.

    Klonopin is possibly the most horrendous drug ever to be foisted on the general public in the name of healing. It's absolutely the devil and should be avoided at almost any cost.

    Absolutely the best way to deal with imbalanced glutamate/GABA, and in my experience, the only way that really works, along with mag glycinate.

    I'd seriously consider stopping. In a normal system, glutamic acid may convert to GABA and / or glutamate, depending on the system's needs. But with a GABA problem, it will definitely convert to glutamate, making your life merry hell.

    GLutamic acid is by definition a free amino, many of which, but especially this one, can cause problems. It isn't, strictly speaking, glutamate. Glutamate is glutamic acid to which a mineral ion has been attached. If that's sodium, the glutamic acid becomes sodium glutamate, and I believe the same is true of calcium and glutamic acid.

    Either way, your body produces a good amount of glutamic acid on its own and really doesn't need to be supplemented with it. The fact that you're having these responses would seem to indicate that you may be having a problem with GABA conversion even with your own endogenous production. Adding more is like throwing kerosene on a fire.

    As has been noted over and over again, because it's such a brilliant metaphor, in nearly every discourse on calcium and glutamate,, glutamate is the gun, calcium is the bullet. It opens calcium channels and stimulates NMDA responses, and bingo, you've got rampant, overstimulated glutamate, with consequential GABA problems.

    Magnesium saved my life, without exaggeration, and I can't recommend it highly enough. I pulled myself out of an endless, nearly year-long loop of horrific, mind-numbing, chest ripping, heart stopping daily series panic/anxiety attacks by dosing with 50 mgs of mag every hour, sometimes sooner, and finally brought them under control, and then got rid of them pretty much entirely.

    To avoid the gastro side effects of high doses of mag (I was taking as much as 800-1200 mgs a day at my worst), I used chelated magnesium, mag glycinate by Solgar. They're the only source of tablet form, 100 mg mag I could find, and it worked a miracle for me. Also, because it's oblong in shae, it's very easy to cut in half into 50 mg doses.

    Give it a try. I think it may help you.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
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  18. perchance dreamer

    perchance dreamer Senior Member

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    And on the subject of magnesium, I've been taking baths with 1 C of Epsom salts and 1 C of magnesium chloride and soaking for 15 minutes. I find it really relaxing, which makes sense because magnesium is supposed to be well absorbed transdermally. I also take magnesium glycinate and magnesium lactate, but feel a stronger effect from the baths.

    Now my books not only have food stains. They also have water stains.
     
  19. Float

    Float

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    EDIT: I see you are male but males can get estrogen dominance too.....

    Estrogen dominance or low progesterone (or progesterone resistance ).
    Progesterone up regulates GABA. that's why menstruating women with anyou of the conditions mentioned above (or luteal phase defect ) get high strung/anxiety feelings. And it sometimes gers called PMS.
    Vitex can help rebalance estrogen / progesterone.
    The synthesis of cortisol can give 'pregnenalone ' steal and prevent sex hormones being made. So then it's also possible to have estrogen dominance with be low nornal levels of both estrogen and progesterone! And therefore low gaba when under stress.
    And we know that ME nervous systems are generally suffering from hypervigilence and too much stress stimulation.
    I am currently trying a supplement called GO Hormone Harmony to help address a state of low estrogen and progesterone, with estrogen dominance.
    The two main reasons I'm doing this are
    1 I think there is a relationship between the sex hormones and the renin angiotensin system which regulates blood volume aND blood pressure. My OI is considerably worse in the week before menstruation. (I haven't got my head around the pathways yet but seems there is a link and seen as my symptoms get disabling at this time (OI , Nervous system hypersensitivity, fatigue etc) there must be a hormonal component !)
    2 PMS symptoms of depressive mood, anxiety, sore boobs, fluid retention etc are all signs of estrogen dominance. And I showed it with blood tests to be true for me.

    I don't know if you are male or female but maless can get estrogen dominance too. Google will tell you about it.

    Good luck
     
  20. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93 Senior Member

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    I stopped the glutamic acid after rapid decline in my brain (the pain was unbearable). Valerian just exhausted me so I’ve stopped that. I take 200mg of mag glycinate and using transdermal magnesium once daily. However I don’t feel much different since adding the transdermal magnesium. Maybe I’m not using enough.

    I agree that my brain feels calmer due to take niacin, magnesium and other neurotransmitter boosting supplements.

    Like I said previously, I’m going to give Kava a go and see where it gets me. But in all honestly, I’m really struggling to reduce glutamate and increase GABA. Cannabis helps, but I don’t think it increases GABA, it just works on the glutamate. Plus I don’t want to use cannabis every day.
     
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