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I strongly need help!

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by girlfromeurope, Aug 4, 2014.

  1. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    are you taking high doses on Zinc & Magnesium at the same time?
    The dark leafy green may be sources of Methylfolate if lightly cooked or raw.
    How did you find the Wahl diet?
     
  2. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I don't do methylation anymore because it stopped working.
    I took 20 mg of zinc everyday but not anymore because it makes my symptoms worse.
    I take 300 mg magnesium/day
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2014
  3. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I wish I could go to a doctor to to an intracellular blood test to see what my real deficiencies are. But we don't have that here in belgium.
    I'll ask for a blood test of b2 and b6 at my doctor but these levels can be false high if you can't absorb them into the active form.
    Anyway I appreciate everybody's help.
     
  4. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    HI Girl of Europe,

    I would suggest going to all the basics, a b-complex without folic acid etc, A, D, E, Magnesium, zinc, omega3 oils, MeCbl, l-methylfolate and AdoCbl, and LCF if need to get startup. Then balance out the potassium and mfolate and add the LCF if not already taken. Starting methylation without all the basics is like taking a camping trip without 75% of what you will need. Every time you turn around you don't have what you need. It gets impossibly complex to do it that way, because so many things are interdependent that every one or two or 3 things are blocked by lacking cofactors. I've have heard all sorts of variations on this story of trying to do it one at a time without the basics. It doesn't work and is a multi year struggle that never gets it right. That's why I say the basics in advance or same day are critical.
     
  5. TigerLilea

    TigerLilea Senior Member

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    I know a few people who can't take magnesium supplements (even low doses) as it causes them to become very lethargic.
     
  6. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I tried literally everything. But thanks for your help I appreciate that!
     
  7. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    Yes, but not together and in the correct order. It is very fussy if it is going to work. From everything you described of how you did it, it was predictable from the start that it wouldn't work.
     
  8. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    I tried everything together, all the supplements in your list but it doesn't work anymore.
    It wasn't smart of me to not take all supplements from the start, but now it seems that I can't fix in anymore.
     
  9. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    That's why one starts over. It has worked every time for me so far. If you want to try again I'll help you find some things you didn't know about or maybe some combinations. There really isn't anything that breaks. Mostly it is stuck in a circle of mutual dependencies without the things that are needed. Plenty of people have had success on a redo. There are as many as needed.
     
    Indigophoton likes this.
  10. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    Thanks for your help! But If the b12 doesn't work because of my other b deficiencies and I can't get those levels up, I don't know what else to do? I'm already showing signs of b6 toxicity when I'm actually not taking more than 5 mg.I'm scared.
     
  11. MissFancypants

    MissFancypants

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    Have you been tested for Pyroluria?
     
  12. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    no I haven't , but I didn't have problems with zinc and b6 before methylation protocol.
     
  13. whodathunkit

    whodathunkit Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope: Just so you know, doing these supplements has been a real roller coaster for me and for most people here. It's not a straight upward shot to good health. It's more like 3 steps foward and 2 steps back. Sometimes more steps back than you take forward. But in the end, you see gains if you do not quit.

    I've had success the second time around with many things that did not work for me the first time. Iodine is a good case in point for me. When I first started taking it I had terrible reaction. So I backed off, cleaned up my diet, cleaned up my body by chelating, and a few months later tried it again. It's now a staple of my health regimen. I'm NOT suggesting you try iodine, BTW. In fact, I suggest you don't, at least not now. This is just an illustration of how a second try can net good results.

    That said, it sounds like your head is not in a good place right now. It's counter-productive to urge you to keep doing what you've apparently decided will never work for you, no matter how you approach it.

    So what I would suggest is trying to address your adrenal problems with liposomal vitamin C, salt loading, and some adrenal glandulars. Eat a clean diet. Give yourself time to get out of your depression or at least feel a little better. Then you can decide if you want to try methylation supps again.

    I will also say that these methylation supplements have been real life savers for me. BUT I don't think I would have reacted nearly as positive to them if I hadn't done all that work cleaning out my body in the past, like with getting my adrenals in order and using iodine. Other things I did over the last four-five years laid the foundation for me to have fairly quick success with the methylation supps. So having a foundation of health is crucial. Since you are already having acute adrenal problems, maybe you need to address that first.
     
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  14. girlfromeurope

    girlfromeurope Senior Member

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    Today my doctor said they don't test other b vitamins, only b12.
    God I hate doctors...
     
  15. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    You likely don't need to get the doses "up there" in a vacuum. What might work is starting with a b-complex, low dose, and suitable A, C, D, E, magnesium and zinc plus the omega3 oils and then bring up the methylation looking for the holes. I just though off a post you might find helpful. It's much easier to find ways that don't work.

    Version 2.0 - 03/10/11, Version 2.1 - 05/08/11. Version 3.0 – 10/25/2012, Version 3.1 10/26/2012, Version 11/05/2012 3.2, Version 3.3 - 08/05/2014



    1. They take an inactive b12, either cyanob12 or hydroxyb12. The research validating their use was primarily for reducing blood cell size in Pernicious Anemia, keeping the serum b12 level over 300pg/ml at the end of the period between injections. They make a statistically significant effect that can be seen in lab tests in a significant percentage of people compared to placebo. They do not heal most damage done by active b12 deficiencies and have little or no effect on the vast majority of symptoms. They may even block active b12 from receptor sites hindering the effects of real b12. They both cause a keyhole effect of having only a very limited amount (estimated at 10-30mcg/day) that can actually be bound and converted to active forms. They in no way increase the level of unbound active cobalamins which appear required for most healing. They do nothing beneficial in a substantial percentage of people (20-40%) while giving the illusion that the problem is being treated and if it doesn’t work, oh well, that’s the accepted therapy. There is no dose proportionate healing with these inactive b12s because it all has to go through this keyhole. Some people are totally incapable of converting these to active forms because they lack the enzymes or ATP

    2. They take active b12 as an oral tablet reducing absorption to below 1%. A 1000mcg active b12 oral tablet might bind as much as 10mcg of b12. Again the b12 has to be squeezed through a keyhole that limits the amount and is subject to binding problems in the person whether genetic or acquired.3. They take a sublingual tablet of active b12 and chew it or slurp it down quickly reducing absorption back to that same 1% and limited to binding capacity. With sublingual tablets absorption is proportionate to time in contact with tissues. I performed a series of absorption tests comparing sublingual absorption to injection via hypersensitive response and urine colorimetry.

    3. Of the many brands of sublingual methylb12 only some are very effective. Some are completely ineffective and some have a little effect.

    4. For injectable methylb12, if it is exposed to too much light (very little light actually is too much) it breaks down. Broken down methylb12 is hydroxyb12. It doesn’t work at healing brain/cord problems of those who have a presumed low CSF cobalamin level. That requires a flood of unbound methylb12 and adenosylb12 (2 separate deficiencies) that can enter by diffusion. Adenosylb12 from sublinguals can ride along with injected methylb12.

    5. They don’t take BOTH active b12s.

    6. They don’t take enough active b12s for the purpose.

    7. Lack of methylfolate

    8. Lack of sufficient Methylfolate, a dose can start more healing than the same dose can complete.

    9. Paradoxical Folate Deficiency - Folic acid is taken which can block at least 10 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called "detox" symptoms. Folinic acid is taken which can block at least 10-20 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called "detox" symptoms.

    10. Lack of l-carnitine fumarate (rarely ALCAR), the 4th of the Deadlock Quartet

    11. Lack of other critical cofactors.

    12. Lack of basic cofactors

    13. Glutathione, glutathione direct precursors, NAC and /or whey is taken causing what is often called "detox" while actually being induced folate and b12 deficiencies.

    14. Having many additional supplements and herbs of unknown interactions and effects.

    15. Too much B1 and/or B2 and/or B3, somewhere between 30-100mg daily (divided 2 doses) of any one or combination.
     
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  16. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

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    @girlfromeurope There's the European Lab of Nutrients in the Netherlands, not that far way from where you are. You can order there a test for essential nutrients, especially those that are bothering you such as B2, B6, zinc etc...
    They also have intracellular levels for minerals, I am not sure about vitamins.

    At least you can you see if your conclusions are correct about those nutrients and see where things might have gone wrong.

    This is the list of tests and panels they offer: http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/documents/en/pricelist_en.pdf

    cheers
     
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  17. liquid sky

    liquid sky Senior Member

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    No, I don't take magnesium and zinc at the same time. I do eat 3 cups of dark leafy greens raw each morning. I found the Wahl diet on line. It was formulated for MS, but Dr. Wahl thinks it might be useful for neuro-iimmune diseases. She started out with supplements, then went to getting the nutrients mostly through food. ME is similar to MS, IMHO.
     
  18. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    unless you have spent time in North America, it's not all that likely anyway.
    @Freddd can you suggest a good quality B-complex free of folic acid that's available in Europe? I use Jigsaw b-complex, but have to import from canada.

    @girlfromeurope have you arranged anti-depressants - I understand you are in a bad place (I have been there) but you are not beyond help. However you do need to get your mind into a place where you will accept Freddd's help and mine.

    If you have reacted badly to single vitamin supplements there are several possibilities here: allergy to one of the filler materials, wrong balance or b vitamins (more likely), correcting the B-Vitamins is aggravating other issues.

    Start of with Vitamins A + C + E (strongest tablets you can buy).
    Add a 1mg Vitamin C tablet (or similar).
    Take a good quality B-complex as Freddd suggested.
    Took a good quality multi-vitamin / multi-mineral.

    As soon as you are used to those, and are on your anti-depressants, you need to give Freddd and me the chance to help you. you also need to talk to the other members (or us) about HOW YOU FEEL. This is clearly not just an issue of sorting your health out, you seem to need to communicate and let things out.
     
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  19. Leopardtail

    Leopardtail Senior Member

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    So far as 'the right tests' are concerned. The best you can expect from you doctors, is that they will draw the blood for you and agree to receive the results. You will have to pay for the tests, we all do.
     
  20. Freddd

    Freddd Senior Member

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    I can't suggest a specific brand. I get a very simple basic one sold at a local pharmacy without folic acid and CyCbl. I see it around in supermarkets etc. Then I order the other items I want as separates, biotin, pantithine, p5p, Inositol. I'm sure you mean 1 gram (gm) of vit C rather than 1mg. Somebody from the UK suggested Tesco. We have to be careful to keep it, the B1, B2 and B3 at the lower doses; 30mg, 20mg and 100mg maximums daily divided in 2 doses. Once a day can cause problems.
     

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