I need to sleep! Help !!!!!

[humanrising]

I have only found two things that have helped me Klonopin which helped but when I had to up my dose to make it work I stopped taking it, its a bugger to get off so most people are hesitant to use it.
the other thing that helps a little is cooling my head. I put a thin ice packet underneath my pillow case and keep my head cooler then the rest of me. helps my head pain a bit too. good luck I know how terrible this is.

 

[invisiblejungle]

There are competent Bastyr-trained naturopathic doctors in Canada - I've been to one in B.C. or you can try to find a functional medicine MD or DO through the Institute for Functional Medicine or Genova Diagnostics.

Lack of sleep is not a deficiency of a drug. It is an imbalance in your biochemistry and a call for help.

In addition to a 24 hour cortisol test, have you had your progesterone level measured? Lack of progesterone will lesd to insomnia (and estrogen dominance ehich csn lead to female cancers).

Ive been helped in the past by some of the things on @Mary 's list, but these things are helping me sleep through the night now:

1. Ornithine and citrulline
   
2. Glycine
   
3. Melatonin
4. B6 (pyridoxal-5-phosphate)
5. Magnesium glycinate

I found that my body matches what Fluge and Mella found about female ME/CFS patients burning amino acids - I was short of many, including those on my list above. I also have had help sleeping from these, but don't take them any more for sleep after uoping my general protein intake:

• 5-HTP
• GABA
• Taurine
• Theanine

If all else fails Kavinace is a nootropic that works. I fiund it effective, but it csn be addictive, so I used it ehen I needed it and got off it as soon as I could.

Hi Learner,

Can you provide anymore info regarding ornithine/citrulline and how they can help with sleep? I thought I had tried everything when it comes to sleep remedies, but this is new to me!

 

[Learner1]

I am not 100% sure, but they are effective for me... They both act in the urea cycle and can help remove ammonia, etc.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

That way I don’t get addicted to any (although I believe drug addiction is conditional on personality - it’s very difficult for me to get addicted to anything)

You've been lucky. And addiction isn't dependent on an "addictive personality". These drugs are massively destructive. They rewire your brain in ways that can take years, sometimes a lifetime, to undo, and can create additional problems that no one would think were possible.

For instance, the "harmless" OTC anihistamine/sleep aid doxylamine (I assume doxy succinate, either Unisom or a generic) is an acetylcholinesterase inhibitor, which will play merry hell with your neuros, among other things. It takes time in some cases, a single dose in others, and the damage can be profound. Cholinesterases are prescribed for the treatment and management of dementia caused by Alzheimer's disease, and are used for the treatment and management of Parkinson's disease, myasthenia gravis, glaucoma, schizophrenia, and Lewy body dementia, among others. Inhibiting any cholinesterase is probably not a great idea, especially with ME.

Cycling between different tranqs or sleep aids is relatively useless, since they're all processed through one or several of the same P450 liver enzyme pathways, and therefore will create the same problems, since the liver can't read the labels and just pretty much does what it's told to do, regardless.

Be careful, and be alert, tho you probably won't know til you try to get off any or all of these little "helpers". Maybe try to edge off one of them very very slowly (it can take years to taper off benzos for some unlucky people, for instance, and it has nothing to do with an "addictive personality") and see what happens. If you tolerate that, maybe try another, very slowly. See how your body and brain react.

Again, DO be careful, and whatever you decide to do, do it low and slow.

 

[L'engle]

Hey guys. I've been having insomnia just in the past few months and I believe it will be temporary, but in the meantime I'm finding it hard to manage. The reason I have it is from excess vitamin d and magnesium that are flushing out of my system after an extreme reaction to lithium orotate, 5 years ago (yes 5 years ago and still ruining my life!)

The magnesium is flushing out of my body in amounts that are probably safe for a normal person as I don't have any other high magnesium symptoms besides insomnia and minor leg cramps. However I am hypersensitive to even low amounts and cannot sleep at all when the magnesium is high in my blood. I know it will wear off eventually but I have been getting less and less sleep the last few weeks and the last couple days have barely got any sleep at all.

I've never taken sleep medication or even supplements before but this insomnia is pretty severe. I got 5-htp and l-theanine today. I've taken 2x100mg of the L-theanine, haven't tried adding in the 5-htp, though the night is long and I would like some sleep. I really don't want to go on prescription sleep aids, even more so reading this thread. But only light naps and no real sleep is tough to go on even temporarily.

My only other idea to go on is flushing out the magnesium faster by drinking lots of water but that gets exhausting in its own way. I don't even naturally have insomnia, my ME/CFS has always run more towards the hypersomnia side.
The only way I've been getting any rest is by drinking 1l or more of goat milk throughout the day to push out the magnesium but then I get high calcium as well which causes its own problems( among which is preventing me from sleeping, even in low amounts, of course).

I don't want to take anything dangerous and I do tend to react to things strongly. Right now I'm using my family as a security blanket and it's not fair to them, crawling into their bed at night because I have anxiety from not being able to sleep.

I may try to add GABA as well and see if the group can stack can work together. Do people feel that 5-htp is safe and safe to take with l-theanine? L-theanine on its own doesn't seem to be a sedative though I did feel quite relaxed about an hour after taking it, then anxious and awake a couple hours later as the milk I had drunk a bit earlier wore off.

Thank you for bearing with my weird tale. It is very strange for me to be locked out of my sleep. Any help for how I can get rid of extra magnesium that is being stored in my system or for how I can work around it with relatively safe sleeping supplements would be appreciated.

 

[Wayne]

Thank you for bearing with my weird tale.

Hi @L'engle, sorry to hear how difficult your sleep is. I've got a weird suggestion for your weird tale. You mentioned GABA. It normally has a hard time crossing the blood brain barrier. But it apparently can cross much easier iif you take it with a few drops of DMSO. I've tried it, and it works pretty well. It could be placebo however, but I'll take it. -- I hope you can find something that works really well for you!

 

[L'engle]

Hey guys. I'm so desperate to sleep. Does anyone know if you go to the emergency room for insomnia do they give you a sedative to take home or keep you there or what? I'm kind of afraid either way.

Edit:
OK, I have an idea what may have happened. Since the lithium orotate experience I can't go near foods or liquids that have much lithium without having parathyroid problems. My parathyroid area started twinging around the same time two days ago I stopped being able to sleep. I didn't eat anything strange that day but the day before I went for holiday dinner with family. I had my own little plate of boring food that I'm allowed to eat but I was allured by colors and savory aroma and added some of the other food into mine. There were quite likely spices and garlic that have some lithium.

I discounted the meal because I slept well for another complete day afterwards but I suppose the effects could be delayed. So hopefully this is what has totally broken my sleep and it won't last. I've only had partial sleep now for 2.5 days and I'm so exhausted.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The magnesium is flushing out of my body in amounts that are probably safe for a normal person as I don't have any other high magnesium symptoms besides insomnia and minor leg cramps

I've never heard of insomnia and minor leg cramps as a side effect of high magnesium, but anything's possible with this sly, baffling illness. Generally, the side effects are diarrhea and mild flushing, and sometimes nausea and vomiting, common side effects of almost everything taken or absorbed in excess,

I got 5-htp and l-theanine today.

I had very bad luck with both of them, especially theanine. But YMMV, were all so different in our responses to things.

I may try to add GABA

While GABA is poorly absorbed orally and doesn't cross the BBB, the downside of it is that, when it does, it activates GABAa receptors and can cause real problems when you try to get off it, generally in the from of wildly excessive anxiety/panic, depression, muscle stiffness and spasticity problems, loss of balance, just the whole effig circus.

Do people feel that 5-htp is safe and safe to take with l-theanine?

I'd be a little careful. Which is no help to you at all.

I discounted the meal because I slept well for another complete day afterwards but I suppose the effects could be delayed

It does seem unlikely that a meal, which transits your gut in about 6-10 hours, and whose constituents are absorbed into your system and utilized during that time, depending on how fast your digestive system is, would suddenly produce problems 24 or more hours later, but again, all our systems are different.

I've only had partial sleep now for 2.5 days and I'm so exhausted.

I use melatonin, 1.5 mgs in two separate doses: 0.5 mgs about 20-30 minutes before I'm ready to shut down and hit the sack, and the other 1.0 mg just as I turn the lights off. I also take 50 mgs of magnesium with it, since that improves it's absorption and action.

When I'm desperate, I take 1/4 of a Unisom tablet, which equals about 6.25 mgs of doxylamine succinate, and that usually does the trick. I'm cautious about using it steadily, or more than 2-3 nights in a row, because I tend to distrust all easy answers, and because it screws with acetylcholine, a critical neurotransmittor. But when you've gone 2.5 days with no sleep, it's worth a shot. I'd eat a goat if I thought it would help. Just be careful, yes?

As far as flushing magnesium goes, calcium can push excess magnesium out of cells to where it can be excreted by the kidneys, and boosting your salt intake a little (sea salt or any natural salt preferably, table salt is loaded with chemicals) will speed the mag’s removal via your kidneys and urine. Calcium is also mildly relaxing, so should help with sleep as well …

Excess mag is extremely uncommon, except for those with kidney problems or those who have received inappropriate dosing via an intravenous route in hospitals. If you’re vegan, you’re probably getting waaay more magnesium than the general population., which could cause some problems.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Hey guys. I'm so desperate to sleep. Does anyone know if you go to the emergency room for insomnia do they give you a sedative to take home or keep you there or what? I'm kind of afraid either way.

Nooooooo, not a chance. At least not in the US. It's a pretty hard sell, but if you get a sympathetic doc or PA, they might. I find the Unisom to be incredibly, almost frighteningly, effective, even at the very low dose I occasionally take, while Benadryl, which is diphenhydramine and works for most people, did absolutely zip for me.

So if Unisom doesn't work, try Bendaryl starting with 1/2. It that works for you, drop it to 1/4 the next time.

I really hope this helps. Sleeplessness is absolute Dante-ian hell.

 

[Mary]

The magnesium is flushing out of my body in amounts that are probably safe for a normal person as I don't have any other high magnesium symptoms besides insomnia and minor leg cramps. However I am hypersensitive to even low amounts and cannot sleep at all when the magnesium is high in my blood.

I agree with @YippeeKi YOW !! - insomnia and leg cramps are generally not associated with high magnesium. But they are associated with low potassium. Low potassium always gives me leg and feet cramps, particularly middle of the night, and it causes insomnia. You might try drinking some low-sodium V8, which is high in potassium, to see if it helps. And if you're low in potassium it will probably take more than one glass to get your levels up. I have to take a potassium supplement daily.

With all the flushing you are doing, you could very well be deficient in potassium, and again, low potassium can cause insomnia and leg cramps.

cannot sleep at all when the magnesium is high in my blood.

How do you know when you have high magnesium in your blood? Too much magnesium generally makes people sleepy or sluggish and causes diarrhea.

I've taken both 5-htp and l-theanine for many years. They help me some with sleep, I've had no problems with combining them. I also need high doses of magnesium at night to sleep, which sounds like the opposite of you. And I do have to avoid calcium at night.

Niacin also helps me the sleep, the kind that makes you flush. It stimulates or sensitizes the GABA receptors. The flushing can be a little alarming at first, but it's harmless - it's from the capillaries dilating and when it wears off it usually puts me to sleep. I'd start with no more than 100 mg. (or even 50 mg.) to see how you do. I now take 500 mg. before bed and 400 mg. more middle of the night.

I've found ornithine can be helpful as well - it helps get rid of excess ammonia, which is one cause of insomnia.

I'm with @YippeeKi YOW !! - I also take 1/4 unisom tablet (it's very strong) when all else fail.

I also take 3 mg. sublingual melatonin before bed.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

With all the flushing you are doing, you could very well be deficient in potassium, and again, low potassium can cause insomnia and leg cramps.

@Mary
Damn, I didn't think f that ..... and I think that lithium orotate depletes potassium as well, tho not certain if my memory is working today, or slacking as usual....

 

[Mary]

@Mary
Damn, I didn't think f that ..... and I think that lithium orotate depletes potassium as well, tho not certain if my memory is working today, or slacking as usual....

Your memory is working! I didn't know this but lithium orotate can deplete potassium: https://sciencing.com/lithium-low-potassium-levels-6630594.html

So @L'engle may very well be dealing with low potassium issues.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Your memory is working!

Thank you for the positive reinforcement , and for that terrific link, which I'm filing away for future use. At which time I'll no doubt have forgotten where I filed it, so be ready for a pleading post from me, requesting back-up.

 

[Mary]

Thank you for the positive reinforcement , and for that terrific link, which I'm filing away for future use. At which time I'll no doubt have forgotten where I filed it, so be ready for a pleading post from me, requesting back-up.

Well, thank YOU for the tip re lithium orotate and low potassium - new information for me!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

So @L'engle may very well be dealing with low potassium issues.

That's where I'd put my money ..... hope @L'engle gets back t this thread and reads these ...

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@Mary
The sciencing. com site had me the second I saw the periodic table. I have this odd fascination with things like periodic tables, and maps absolutely hold me spellbound. I have a sneaking suspicion tht this isn't necessarily a good thing (probably some OCD in there someplace, but then it's always lurking somewhere), but hey!! Bugger the begrudgers. Chacun a son gout. It's healthier than tipping cows.

 

[Mary]

It's healthier than tipping cows.

But probably not as much fun!

I have this odd fascination with things like periodic tables, and maps absolutely hold me spellbound.

Actually I think it's a good thing! My mind tends to shut down at the sight of diagrams etc. So I'm glad that there are people like you who can actually make sense of them without driving yourself mad!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

But probably not as much fun!

I'd like to hear the cow-vote on that ....

Actually I think it's a good thing!

That's because you're a kind person, @Mary ..... most people just think it's weird, because in their mental stereotyping of me, I " ...don't look like the type ...."

My mind tends to shut down at the sight of diagrams etc.

Not sure what kind of diagrams you mean, but in grammar class, my cue for a fast, very satisfying, deep nap started the minute the teacher began diagramming and parsing sentences on the blackboard (they still use those, don't they? Or am I, like, Mesosoic), and I still can't parse a sentence to save my life. Diagrams of things like elevations on maps rarely hold my attention beyond noting that, "Wow, that's high .. and moving right along now....", but for some reason, the Periodic Table isn't included. So, selective OCD I'm thinking ....

So I'm glad that there are people like you who can actually make sense of them without driving yourself mad!

Two assumptions here: one, that I can make sense of anything except on really good days and even then, marginally , and two, that I'm not mad . Mwaaahahahahahamwaa ...... (making those washing of hands movements here that all cartoon mad men and villains master at birth) .....

 

[Mary]

I'd like to hear the cow-vote on that

Cows can't vote, can they? If they could, I'm sure we could do something to suppress the vote if need be like tipping them maybe? (Sorry, no excuse here!)

So, selective OCD I'm thinking

Could be! The diagrams people post here where they show all the interactions between various nutrients and substances with arrows and so on, I'm lost the minute I look at them. I literally cannot follow them. If someone said, substance A combines with substance B to create substance C, I can understand that. But the pictures? argghhh! I think it's how our brains are wired.

two, that I'm not mad .

Well, okay - but define mad!

I'm sorry, I think we've taken this thread way off topic, apologies to @warriorgirl!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Cows can't vote, can they? If they could, I'm sure we could do something to suppress the vote if need be

Hmmmmm .... yaaassss ..... I think I've heard tell of that .....somewhere ......

The diagrams people post here where they show all the interactions between various nutrients and substances with arrows and so on, I'm lost the minute I look at them.

I'm still working out the citric acid cycle diagrams, and they're having the same effect on me that sentence parsing does, and yet I persist .....

Well, okay - but define mad!

Those who believe they're, like, toootally sane .....

I'm sorry, I think we've taken this thread way off topic, apologies to @warriorgirl!

Oh Lordy, you're right ..... I add my apologies to that, but this illness is so unrelenting that a little silliness is almost a requirement for .... here it comes ...... wait for it ..... maintaining sanity ... mwaaahahaha wheeze ......

Maybe you could move our sillier posts to the Silly Games etc thread? I'd add a link, but I know this sneaky, sly little reply window will immediately wipe out this response, and then I'll just start shrieking and my hair will burst into flames ... I'll post this, look up the actual name, and add a link below...... but it might be a shame to break up the set .....