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I need assistance with a Methylation plan

Messages
54
Location
Montreal, Canada
What are the best ways to test Lithium? Is a Hair Test any good at all?

I hope it is ok to cut & paste like this.. It is posted on scribd.. so I hope I am not violating any copyright rules....


Feb 12, 2013 3:50 pm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/125176090/Lit ... Metabolism

I wanted to reiterate an important connection I have discovered concerning those who are MTR + and lithium levels. This relationship also seems to hold true for many adults regardless of their MTR status (this may be due to the impacts of oxidation with aging). I tend to find VERY LOW lithium levels (and signs of higher level lithium excretion) for those who are MTR + as well as many adults. This is important to pay attention to, as lithium plays a role in helping with B12 transport. Especially for those who have concerns about about transcobalamin II deficiency you want to be sure you keep lithium in a healthy normal range. Lithium levels can be followed on a combination of a HMT and a UEE. Also blood lithium levels can be checked. Those who show very low in cobalt on a UEE in spite of adequate B12 support should consider that lithium may be low and look at lithium on that same UEE as well as running a HMT. Possible sources of low dose lithium support can include low dose lithium orotate, Be Calm Spray, Lithia water. This connection is described in greater detail on the Lithium DVD (online no charge at http://www.dramyyasko.com/resources/web ... -webisode/) As ALWAYS work with and defer to your doctor when using supplementation.
With love and hope, Dr.Amy
griffkoom
Posts:18469
Joined:Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:04 am
Location:Massachusetts
 

Red04

Senior Member
Messages
179
She would take 2 X 99mg pills with the supplements am/pm. Then 3-4 X 99mg with a glass of water every 45 minutes until symptoms (leg cramps) went away. Maybe 1600 mgs on the worst days. But I think she could have had more. She was always "bouncing off the bottom" with potassium. If she was experiencing potassium symptoms, I used the rationalization that a person without deficiency has an RDA between 3000-4700. So I wouldn't become to concerned if she was supplementing an extra 50%. But I think the best answer might be to take potassium until potassium symptoms go away.

I didn't have many life threatening concerns as my wife was a relatively healthy 25 year old before the CFS/ME hit. She was running 5k's etc..... So please take that into consideration.

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Potassium-99-mg-250-Tablets/17235

I would say it took a few months to get through the symptomatic treatment (extra 300-400mg doses) and then 2-4 99mg along with the supplements has seemed to work.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
This may be of interest to anybody who perhaps like me could not afford testing or the substantial number of supplements required under the Yasko's protocol.

Until a few years ago I used to be unable to tolerate any methylation supplements. The slightest dose of B12 and any form of folate would make me feel so wired, sam would cause mood changes and feel like i was going nuts and I suffered from severe insomnia. Persisting made my illness worst. I couldn't afford testing so I never knew waht was actually wrong. I only tested my homcysteine levels through my gp and it was quite high which could indicate a methylation problem.

Fast forward a few years and I managed to unexpectedly overcome all of that by other, unrelated treatments for parasites and bacteria.
Since then I was able to tolerate the smp without any problem, most nights I sleep like a log and the old and quite severe anxiety and low stress tolerance I suffered from have resolved. I also used to have problems with toxicity but I recently managed to redecorate part of my flat with no problems.

Perhaps I should add, as it was rightly pointed out in earlier posts, that mutations are relevant if and when they're expressed.
I suspect, but I can't be 100% certain, that pathogens and their toxins affect the expression of our mutations, otherwise I would not know how to explain such changes in my system and ability to tolerate again different stressors. Although I remember that Yasko's patients seem to be on a wide package of treatments also covering chelation of heavy metals and pathogens which certainly contribute to her success cases.
For people with inflammatory conditions such as viruses, infections, or metal/mold/chemical toxicities, methylation can exacerbate the inflammation and also cause the toxins to be released via the transsulfuration pathway. I don't think there's really a right or wrong answer as to which order people do things whether they do methylation first or after treating other conditions or doing both treatments at the same times. The causes of CFS/ME are so wide and diverse that everyone here seems to have their own unique set of circumstances. I find that too much methylation tends to trigger my adrenal symptoms now. I also think I have large amount of inflammation now since anything that causes a herx (either probiotics or antibacterial/microbial/fungal/viral supplements) triggers a depression most likely due to inflammatory cytokines.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
Um, I don't want to comment on startup. I have been supplementing my whole life so I cannot comment on that. What I want to comment on is your saying you have brain fog. I usually hear that is caused by a thyroid problem. Your TSH should be < 2.0 or else your thyroid is not normal. See here: www.lef.org/appendix/protocols/blood_testing_02.htm

Now what to do if it's > 2.0? I am no expert. I just want to say that some of the things required for your thyroid to function are tyrosine, zinc, B12, selenium, iodine, and copper. maybe others. Go to a good thyroid site if need be. But I would check it out.
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Um, I don't want to comment on startup. I have been supplementing my whole life so I cannot comment on that. What I want to comment on is your saying you have brain fog. I usually hear that is caused by a thyroid problem. Your TSH should be < 2.0 or else your thyroid is not normal. See here: www.lef.org/appendix/protocols/blood_testing_02.htm

Now what to do if it's > 2.0? I am no expert. I just want to say that some of the things required for your thyroid to function are tyrosine, zinc, B12, selenium, iodine, and copper. maybe others. Go to a good thyroid site if need be. But I would check it out.
I've been under 2.0 all three times I've been tested, but my test says that the normal range is 0.550-4.780. It says "TSH high-sensitivity". Is there more than one type of TSH test?
 
Messages
54
Location
Montreal, Canada
She would take 2 X 99mg pills with the supplements am/pm. Then 3-4 X 99mg with a glass of water every 45 minutes until symptoms (leg cramps) went away. Maybe 1600 mgs on the worst days. But I think she could have had more. She was always "bouncing off the bottom" with potassium. If she was experiencing potassium symptoms, I used the rationalization that a person without deficiency has an RDA between 3000-4700. So I wouldn't become to concerned if she was supplementing an extra 50%. But I think the best answer might be to take potassium until potassium symptoms go away.

I didn't have many life threatening concerns as my wife was a relatively healthy 25 year old before the CFS/ME hit. She was running 5k's etc..... So please take that into consideration.

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Potassium-99-mg-250-Tablets/17235

I would say it took a few months to get through the symptomatic treatment (extra 300-400mg doses) and then 2-4 99mg along with the supplements has seemed to work.
Thanks.... that's really helpful. I think I am needing those kind of doses. I get some cramping in my feet, but the bigger problem is my heart "thumping", increased heart rate and ankle swelling. NEVER had this before..... and it seems to be relieved by Potassium. I think I had better get the pills so I can measure the dosed better.
 
Messages
54
Location
Montreal, Canada
She would take 2 X 99mg pills with the supplements am/pm. Then 3-4 X 99mg with a glass of water every 45 minutes until symptoms (leg cramps) went away. Maybe 1600 mgs on the worst days. But I think she could have had more. She was always "bouncing off the bottom" with potassium. If she was experiencing potassium symptoms, I used the rationalization that a person without deficiency has an RDA between 3000-4700. So I wouldn't become to concerned if she was supplementing an extra 50%. But I think the best answer might be to take potassium until potassium symptoms go away.

I didn't have many life threatening concerns as my wife was a relatively healthy 25 year old before the CFS/ME hit. She was running 5k's etc..... So please take that into consideration.

http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Potassium-99-mg-250-Tablets/17235

I would say it took a few months to get through the symptomatic treatment (extra 300-400mg doses) and then 2-4 99mg along with the supplements has seemed to work.
Why is it that you are able to go to a reduced dose after a few months? Is it that the methylation Cycle slows down, or what?
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
You might also want to make sure you're supplementing with magnesium. If you have a magnesium deficiency you might have trouble raising your potassium levels.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
And magnesium deficiency causes irregular heart beat. (Potassiumdeficiency may as well, I am just chipping in that low magnesium is known for this).

Lotus I don't think there is more than one type of TSH test so your thyroid is ok. I believe it is better if it is close to 1. But at 2 you do not have cholesterol problems nor cardiac problems. Someone on a thyroid forum said when their thyroid was 1 they felt fantastic and after having a baby it is 2 and they are trying to get back to 1. I never measured my thyroid until I had a problem so I don't know what it might have been when I was healthier and I have adopted this goal (of 1) for my own. Priorly I was satisfied at 2 thinking hat was about what could be expected from a thyroid.

Anyway a 2 should not cause brain fog so that is not your thyroid. I have also had brain fog from anemia...r u anemic? No doubt there are other causes as well, I just observed on these forums that thyroid seems to be the most common cause. Good luck.

Triff
 

Lotus97

Senior Member
Messages
2,041
Location
United States
Lotus I don't think there is more than one type of TSH test so your thyroid is ok. I believe it is better if it is close to 1. But at 2 you do not have cholesterol problems nor cardiac problems.
My last test I was 1.8, but are you saying that I don't need to get my T3 tested if my TSH is under 2.0? I'm sort of confused about the symptoms of thyroid, but I thought it should still be ruled out since I have adrenal issues and Lyme disease. I do have high cholesterol and high blood pressue, but I'm not sure how that's related to the thyroid. My cholesterol is probably due to medication I've been on, but I don't know what's causing the blood pressure.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
Lotus97;

Hi Lotus, The TSH is a pituitary hormone, so it doesn't always describe the condition of the thyroid. For instance, if the pituitary function is low, it may not be able to generate enough TSH to stimulate the thyroid to produce T3 and T4.

This is the reason it is good to test free T3 and free T4, along with TSH.

In my case, I've had times of very low TSH, along with low free T3 and low normal T4. These results indicate low pituitary function, hypopituitary.

There can be a combined low pituitary and low thyroid too.
 

Red04

Senior Member
Messages
179
Why is it that you are able to go to a reduced dose after a few months? Is it that the methylation Cycle slows down, or what?

I think the general theory is that with you start methylation your body uses a bunch of potassium to "heal". You start building muscle, etc.... As the "healing" subsides and you become "healthy", your potassium demand goes back to normal.

I don't know how many others have been able to reduce potassium intake after becoming healthy.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
Lotus, you should do a complete thyroid panel if you have symptoms: TSH, FREE T4, FREE T3, Reverse T3, and the two thyroid antibodies. And supposedly the thyroid antibodies may need to be tested twice because of false negatives or something (I think if you have Hashi it may show antibodies and then not, off and on??). idk that much about the thyroid...it has never been on the radar of my family and I feel disgusted to be having problems with it, like it wasn't supposed to be my fate.

After I did the panel and found no problem not detected by TSH, I just am cheap and use TSH. The thing is that I suspect TSH is a better measure than people think IF you use the right range (<2.0). But I can't swear to that. I think possibly, tentatively, that we women have trouble absorbing copper and zinc after menopause because the substance needed to do it, metallothionein, seems to be affected (increased) by hormones. I have recently read a study that showed that copper, zinc, and chromium are best absorbed in the picolinate form (2 other forms measured did not raise blood or other levels of these minerals). So I switched to that form and maybe in a month or so I'll know if it will help me. The thing is that now that I am taking thyroid glandulars idk if supplying the nutrients the thyroid needs to work will help me or if my thyroid will just get lazy and say fagettaboutit. It was my allergies that pushed me into thyroid problems though this winter. I am wondering if I should move south before another winter...

idk anything about adrenal problems except that I get those during hayfever season. Zinc helps me tremendously with that. But my allergies are so bad that eventually if the allergy season last long enough, I will develop adrenal problems (no aldosterone, low blood pressure).

For high blood pressure I take: 500mg potassium (every day, no let up unless my kidneys are out (UTI or real thyroid issue as it lowers GFR)), 1g olive leaf extract (it is an ace inhibitor and I can feel it relaxing my blood vessles...science says it lowers bp 11 points), some amount (depends on you) of DHEA, and cal-mag citrate supplements (I currently use Nutricology because I can get both the cal and mag in citrate form with that brand and I take 4-6/day...I think the daily dose may be 4(?) but if I managed to eat a lot of salt that day I will certainly take 6 if not more...but only 2 at a time to prevent bowel problems. I think the calcium helps me excrete the salt...I am extremely salt sensitive. Today I was at my sister's house and I ate some hot sauce on an avocado. I liked it a lot and proceeded to eat several tablespoons of hot sauce plain. After I got home I got REAL thirsty and realised - sh*T! That was LOADED with salt! In defence of blood pressure I am up late taking my cal-mag citrate pills every so often trying to get rid of some salt...

Life extension has quite a bit about lowering cholesterol on their website www.lef.org. I think (1) is to take omega-3. So far this is the first time mine ever came high and my throid was low. So until I get a reading lik ethyroid ok but still high cholesterol, I am not doing anything but fix my thyroid. I want to measure TSH to see how I'm doing but I don't have a feel for how fast TSH responds to dietary changes. Anyone know that?

Well sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Triff
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
Oh, also, estrogen raises BH4. And I get estrogen from DHEA. DHEA lowers TNF-alpha. I am CBS +/+ and CBS +/- (two mutations on CBS) and that dysregulates blood sugar (I have read indicators that it is a G6PDCH or whatever issue). The DHEA makes testosterone that regulates my CBS gene better and that is why I think DHEA is saving me from diabetes.
 
Messages
65
There have been a number of questions lately about how to start with the program. So I thought I would take a moment and briefly review how to get started for those adults as well as individuals with autism interested in the program. I feel the first step is to get balance glutamate and gaba in part by pulling down glutamate levels that are too high. Tools you can consider for help with this include: Be Calm Spray, Ku shen tea(may help neutralize excess glutamate
http://bit.ly/11gKqxO
), carnosine(as it may help decrease glutamate transport), gaba, Nerve Calm Formula, Resveratrol Spray, pycnogenol, grape seed extract. It is not necessary to use all of these, which ones you choose will depend on your doctors opinion, how much of an issue glutamate is and which supplements you respond well to. Also glutamate works with calcium to cause excitotoxicity so keeping calcium in balance with zinc, low dose lithium and magnesium can be a help. Also you can consider the use of ATP to be sure phosphate levels don't drop too low so that leucine increases which can in turn increase glutamate. All of this is part of STEP 1 of the program, which you can read more about in the book and workbook and the updated supplement by mutation list.

Next, you can work with your doctor on getting some basic methylation support in place. Start with the short cut first, looking at the use of PS/PE/PC along with SAMe(if it is tolerated), VitaOrgan and DHA. While working on the short cut check that lithium levels are in balance. If not, work with your doctor on low dose lithium support. Where lithium plays a role in B12 transport if you start to add too much B12 before lithium is in balance you run the risk of further depleting lithium levels. Once lithium is in balance consider low dose hydroxy and adenosyl B12 and continue to keep an eye on lithium levels. Finally look at long route support with supplements such as MethylMate A + B. Move slowly and work with your doctor as long route support may trigger detox. Special considerations should be given to a need for support for those with CBS and SHMT SNPs. Where MTHFR compromises the long route. I would start with the short cut and then be sure lithium is in balance, be sure taurine is not too high, be sure SHMT is not an issue...THEN once short cut is supported and lithium, taurine and iron are in balance I would add hydroxy B12 and a drop or two adenosyl B12 (and methyl if COMT --/Taq ++) and THEN add low dose Methylmate A + B and the MTHFRA1298C Compound to get around the long route.
For more information please view the DVDs , webisodes and previous presentations all online at no charge. And as always work with and defer to your doctor. With love and hope, Dr. Amy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/123021228/Neu ... -receptors

I keep seeing Dr. Yasko's recommendation for pycnogenol (pine bark extract), and I'm not sure it's a good idea for us CFS/ME folks. Whilst it has many potential benefits, it's a potential Th2 stimulant. In most of us, whether due to heavy metal toxicity, candida, parasites, etc., we are probably Th2 dominant. So, it's counterintuitive to take pycnogenol. However, grape seed extract is a Th1 stimulant. It's also a potent antifungal (but it also wipes out good bacteria, so I stay away from it). I can only assume that the focus on autism means that not all supplements are useful to us. With that said, there will naturally be similarities. My lithium, for instance, was almost undetectable in the DDI toxic elements hair test. Together with reducing excitotoxicity, I think for many of us, this will prove to be useful step.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I wish my brain fog wasn't so bad, I might be able to read and understand enough about my 23andme results and the basic Methylation protocol to start a plan on my own. Since my brain isn't working properly, I'm crying uncle and asking for help.

I have had ME/CFS for 5+ years. Major neurological symptoms. High viral titers (EBV, HHV-6, HHV-1) and take Valcyte, Famvir and LDN. I also have Pernicious Anemia and take 5mg of injectable Methylcobalamin three times weekly. I have never had a problem with it. I recently added Jarrow's MethylFolate 400mcg once daily. My doc just prescribed injectable Folic acid, I took one dose, 800mcg last week and immediately felt depressed.

It seems like I have started the Methylation protocol in the middle by treating the pernicious anemia. How should I proceed with the attached test results?

It could be the folic acid that does that. It is not the same as the methylfolate and can actually block methylfolate for some people. It would make me depressed. The pernicious anemia is where you have to start or it can kill you.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
I've been under 2.0 all three times I've been tested, but my test says that the normal range is 0.550-4.780. It says "TSH high-sensitivity". Is there more than one type of TSH test?

Hi Lotus,

My doc said that the interpretation has changed recently, that the preferred range is now under 2.0, the lower half of the "normal" TSH range, that patients do better.