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I have OCD, anxiety, likely undermethylation,very mild pyroluria

TheChosenOne

Senior Member
Messages
209
Does that answer the question?
Yes, it is what I expected. This also means that the values in the hair test do not represent the minerals in your body, so don't focus on it. It's a good idea to look into mercury intoxication and chelation therapy. You can always read the book of Cutler about Amalgam Illness. It is a bit old, but it has a ton of information.
There is also a Yahoo group dedicated to mercury poisoning and chelation.

Pyrrole disorder can be caused by heavy metals. I don't know if I have pyrrole (I have a suspicion), but I feel much calmer on B6. So maybe a B complex works for you (or GABA supplements that cross the blood brain barrier). Another thing that might be worth investigating is lithium. It protects neurotransmitters from the exitation often present in anxiety and is supposed to help with ADHD. It increases the production of COMT which breaks down neurotransmitters.
It's always a good idea to do a methylation test to have a theoretical idea about what is going on.

Protip: Don't try to gather all the info first before doing chelation like I did. Just read the chapter on how to cure yourself or ask in the Yahoo group (or here) how to get started.
 
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27
Why "the values in the hair test do not represent the minerals in your body"? Because of the way TEI does the testing, or because the pattern shows deranged mineral transport?

As I understand the only way to know for sure if its mercury, is to start chelation and see if I get any reactions (better or worse)?

I subscribed to the frequent-dose-chelation Yahoo group, and they told me to first X-ray the teeth to be sure there is no bit of amalgam left.

This is my full list of symptoms, maybe it gives some more insight, maybe its not even OCD but something else, I don't know:

MENTAL SYMPTOMS

* I am a very slow person. I am slow to think, slow to do stuff, slow to eat. I have always been like that. As a child at dinner, once everyone was finished eating, I was still eating for another hour. Now I am 35 years old and I'm still the same, almost everything else in life takes me significantly much time (normal things, which everyone does, like getting dressed, eating, etc). Its hurting my life tremendously, as after I subtract from 24 hours the time I sleep, the time I need for daily body maintenance tasks like eating, dressing, showering, brushing teeth, shaving, there is very little time of the day left for me. I often resort to just skipping things, not showering, recently I grew a beard, just to have more time of the day left.


* I get mentally tired quickly and need a lot of mental rest often, just to be able to use my brain properly again. Many times during the day I do not feel physically tired, I feel physically very energetic, but I can't seem to just use my brain any more, I need to take many breaks during the day when I don't use my brain too much, like walking in nature, sitting on grass, etc, and then I am good to go again.


* This all leaves very little time during the day when I can actually do useful stuff. Out of 24 hours of the day, I maybe have roughly usually only 4 hours left when I can do stuff. The remaining 20 hours is taken up by body maintenance tasks (sleep/rest/cook/eat/wash/poop/revive). I need to revive mentally (for 5-20 minutes) even after washing dishes, eating or pooping! I'm NOT physically tired, I just feel like I can't think more even about simplest stuff until my brain unwinds.


* I have terrible short-term memory, I can think of doing something, and then 5 seconds later I forgot what it was that I wanted to do, so I have to stop doing anything and think what it was that I wanted to do, and it can take a few minutes, so doing things is stalled. Actually whatever I do it seems like over 80% of the time is spent stalled waiting for my brain to retrieve and process information or mentally rest, and little time is spent doing anything. Someone new tells me their name, and I can forget it minutes later, and ask again about it. I can't remember faces of people I've seen and later when I see them again, even some minutes/hours later the same day, I have to think intensively is it the same person I already seen, or someone else, and often I am wrong about that.


* I have to write down what I am doing in big letters on pieces of paper and put it in front of me, so I see the piece of paper all the time, otherwise I forget what I am doing while doing it, and have to stop and think "what it was that I was doing?". But I think my long term memory is quite good, its just the short-term I feel its terrible. Once I learn them, I can remember long numbers for a long time, have no problems remembering various different PIN codes, bank account numbers.


* Sometimes I am doing something, and out of a sudden I stop and start looking at some object or into the distance, and a few minutes or more pass without me even noticing, and then I “wake-up” and wonder “what I was doing that I was doing”? If this happens several times a day, even if only for a few minutes each time, this can easily in total take out an hour of my precious time of the day. I also spend a lot of time throughout the day looking around the room or area, wondering about totally unimportant things, like whether a certain line is straight or not, sorting and aligning things lying on the table, etc. Each time this happens, I realize after a few minutes that its useless, and I should not be doing this, and stop and go back to my task, but before I realize a few minutes pass, and if this happens several times a day, there is another hour lost. It seems like my brain is forcing these frequent micro-brakes many times a day, as its not able to handle useful thinking any more, and it resorts to useless micro-tasks to unwind a bit.

* Each time I am doing something, no matter how small and easy, my brain takes a few minutes to think about why, how, in what way I should do this, and this happens even for completely easy, no-brainer tasks, which should require no thought, especially if they have been done thousands of times in life already, and actually doing the task takes 30 seconds (examples: fetching an item from the cupboard, putting on an item of clothing, etc.). My brain often adds 5 minutes of thinking before the 30 seconds of doing, so simple things take me 10 times longer then they reasonably should.

* I feel like about 80% of the time I am living overstressed, and struggle to handle everyday life tasks, and feel overwhelmed, when in fact I don't have an (objectively) stressful life at all. Its just almost everything can make me overstressed. When I can't handle it any more, I resort to doing things super-slow, and not looking at the time, this calms me down.


* Often I stop doing what I am doing, because some thoughts come to my mind, and I feel an unstoppable urge to analyze them, sometimes something catches my attention, like a bird, a cloud, a dot on the wall, and I spend minutes analyzing them, without realizing how much time have passed. Then of course everything what I was doing stalls.


* When I am doing something, even though I am finished, I often repeatably continue doing the same thing, checking, and rechecking and redoing, as if I didn't believe it was actually done. When I write something, even not so important, sometimes I can continuously go over the text I wrote like in an endless loop, so it takes me half a day until I realize I am done. Sometimes I've done something, and very soon I don't remember if I had done it already recently or not, so I have to do it again (things like brushing teeth, locking door, etc).


* I have an impression I am declining intellectually over the years. I forget common words, sometimes can't focus enough to read, I have difficulty carrying on conversations because I'm anxious and mentally exhausted just by an ordinary conversation.


* I am very bad at filtering speech from surrounding noise. Often in a loud environment I can't understand what someone is saying, because I can't separate the speech and the noise, even though I see everyone else talking without problems. This makes it difficult and unsatisfactory to participate in social events, where there is music and/or other people talking. Even a cafe can be too noisy for me to sit down with someone else and talk, because I will not understand the words through the noise and have to ask them to repeat louder all the time.


* Sometimes people tell me I am speaking too loud to them, when I don't feel that way, and I feel if I spoke quieter I wouldn't hear myself.


* Conversation with other people requires a lot of exhausting mental effort from me, and is often interrupted by uncomfortably lengthy silence pauses, me thinking what to say, unless I am talking about a very narrow specific technical issue which I know a lot about, then I can talk effortlessly forever about a narrow subject, well at least long enough to bore anyone for whom its not his/her passion. But conversation about “normal” everyday topics requires a lot of effort from me, and I can rarely do it in a fluent manner, without lengthy thought pauses.


* I can be very talkative when I am with just 1 person, max 2, but when more people are around, I can suddenly lock-up myself in my own thoughts, and stop being able to have a meaningful conversation, withdraw from the situation and lock-up in some mental shell.


* If I want to get something done during the day, I often skip shower, put the same clothes I had yesterday because choosing something else would require too much mental effort and waste another half an hour, skip grooming, washing, brushing teeth, doing any kind of cleaning, even skip eating, skip any social contact, and only then I have time to actually get something done that day.


* It often takes me a lot of time to actually start doing something, my brain is over-analyzing everything, even tasks which are a no-brainer, and I know it, I can spend extensive amounts of time for preparing myself mentally to do the task.


* I get stressed very easily, and the stress paralyzes my capability to get anything done for the rest of the day (or at least until I clear it by having a nap, walk in nature). Even things like someone passing by can stress me, when I drive it stresses me if someone is driving directly behind me, so sometimes I stop on the road shoulder to let them pass, and have no one driving just behind me. The passage of time stresses me, if I planned do eat at a certain hour, and then because I was doing something I didn't realize how much time has passed, and its already 3 hours later, I get super-stressed, and have to waste another half an hour to calm myself down before I can continue.



SENSORY INPUT SYMPTOMS


* I have a very poor ability to filter sensory input, so anything that happens around me, takes my attention, and then I can not then think or do what I was doing, because something is happening. Often I am not able do two things at the same time, even so simple and theoretically non-conflicting like washing the dishes and talking. If someone says something to me, I stop washing the dishes, then think for a bit what to say and then respond.


* I am very sensitive to light, and have to squint my eyes in sunlight conditions when other people don't have to.


* I am sensitive to sound, noise, sometimes I even find it difficult to do even simple tasks like cleaning if there is music playing.



PHYSICAL SYMPTOMS


* I often got a stitch while running, I can't run, but I can walk very fast.


* Easily bleeding gums, I have to use an old, softened toothbrush to brush without bleeding, if I use a new toothbrush, my gums will bleed.


* My breathing is kind of strange, sometimes I have some kind of difficulty breathing, for no apparent reason, difficult to explain.


WHAT I ALREADY TRIED


* Over 3 years of 100% gluten-free, grain-free, processed-food-additives free.

* Over 2 years of being 99% refined-sugar-free, MSG-free, all-industrially-processed-carbohydrates-free.

* Four 60-capsule bottles of Prescript-Assist over several months.

* 50g of Custom Probiotics D-lactate-free 9-strain formula, 250 billion CFU/gram, over 2 months.

* Ten 450 billion CFU sachets of VSL#3 over 1 week.
 

TheChosenOne

Senior Member
Messages
209
Why "the values in the hair test do not represent the minerals in your body"? Because of the way TEI does the testing, or because the pattern shows deranged mineral transport?
It's because it shows deranged mineral transport.

As I understand the only way to know for sure if its mercury, is to start chelation and see if I get any reactions (better or worse)?
It's different for everyone. You should feel better over time, but there may be periods where you feel worse. Even during a chelation round there may be difference. (I always feel better first, then worse.)

You seem to have a lot of issues that are stress/anxiety related. I also have stress problems, but most of them go away with lithium (orotate, 120 mg). To be sure, you need a blood test to see if your kidneys can handle additional lithium, but to be honest, who has time to do that? It makes me able to concentrate again and lower my stress levels significantly.
Same can be said about anxiety. The thing that seems to work best for me is B6.
I can't say much about your OCD symptoms, because I don't have it atm (I had it as a child).

* Conversation with other people requires a lot of exhausting mental effort from me, and is often interrupted by uncomfortably lengthy silence pauses, me thinking what to say, unless I am talking about a very narrow specific technical issue which I know a lot about, then I can talk effortlessly forever about a narrow subject, well at least long enough to bore anyone for whom its not his/her passion. But conversation about “normal” everyday topics requires a lot of effort from me, and I can rarely do it in a fluent manner, without lengthy thought pauses.

* I can be very talkative when I am with just 1 person, max 2, but when more people are around, I can suddenly lock-up myself in my own thoughts, and stop being able to have a meaningful conversation, withdraw from the situation and lock-up in some mental shell.
These symptoms are familiar to me :) I don't know where they come from but these are typical for autism. (I absolutely don't have autism myself.) There is a post that may describe what you are talking about. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ltipurpose-drug-for-me-cfs.20964/#post-323633
I haven't looked into this problem, because I want to solve other things first. Maybe you can try to ask questions on that thread with regards to this symptom.

Sound and light sensitivity are symptoms of mercury poisoning.

Do you have no other physical symptoms besides the ones you posted? No digestive issues? No thyroid problems (cold hands and feet)?

Why do you take probiotics?
 
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27
Do you have no other physical symptoms besides the ones you posted? No digestive issues? No thyroid problems (cold hands and feet)?

Why do you take probiotics?

I also take Lithium Orotate 120 mg = 5 mg elemental Li, but it doesn't help me. When do you take yours, morning, everything, on empty stomach or with food?

If digestive symptoms I have usually a mildly mushy stool, which is yellowish-greenish colour instead of brown and firm, which I suspect can mean some issue with bile, or maybe just fast passage because of gut inflammation. I am currently trying to identify which foods I can eat to have my stool brown and firm, because it does happen from time to time.

I take all B vitamins, mostly in active coenzymated forms. I take 75 mg P5P daily, and a bit lower amounts of other B-group. But only since a few weeks, maybe its too little time to correct deficiencies, but I have a feeling it won't fix the problem, as I would feel some effect already.

I find it strange that people report all kinds of major reactions to high-dose vitamin supplements, and I can take almost anything and I don't feel ANY change, neither good, nor bad, besides an occasional diarrhea, or often mushy stool if I take too much of something. but mentally my brain doesn't react to anything I take, it stays all the same. Strange! If I would only get a bad reaction to something, aat least I would have some clue what might be going on and what NOT to take. But I feel I can take anything, megadose anything, and besides a loose stool, nothing happens! So disappointing!

I was trying probiotics to help my gut, but I am not taking any now, waiting to do a GI Effects stool test and then I will take again if the test results will suggest it would be helpful.

My hands are warm since 3 years since I eat mostly butter instead of grains as I ate before, and before the change 3 years ago my feet and hands were always cold. Now they are nice and warm, provided I eat enough fat of course.
 
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Do your bowels float or do they sink?

I don't usually know, because the shape of my toilet doesn't allow to observe that, so today I defecated in a bucket of water just to see, and it sank. But today it was actually a bit more firm then usual (still a bit on the mushy side, and started disintegrating quickly in the water). Still not brown, but yellowish, with some undigested vegetable matter visible.
 

pspa123

Senior Member
Messages
105
I find it strange that people report all kinds of major reactions to high-dose vitamin supplements, and I can take almost anything and I don't feel ANY change, neither good, nor bad, besides an occasional diarrhea, or often mushy stool if I take too much of something. but mentally my brain doesn't react to anything I take, it stays all the same. Strange! If I would only get a bad reaction to something, aat least I would have some clue what might be going on and what NOT to take. But I feel I can take anything, megadose anything, and besides a loose stool, nothing happens! So disappointing!

Perhaps the answer for you does not lie then in the very elaborate (and likely expensive) supplement regime you have self-prescribed, or in microanalysis of your labs, SNPs, etc.? Over the years I have found that stress reduction and exercise have done me far far more good in terms of dealing with stress and anxiety and even fatigue than any supplements or anything else suggested by the alternative/functional medicine people I saw or spoke with (including Rich VanK who was a kind, wonderful man but whose recommendations never did anything for me). I am sure that is against the grain of this board but maybe, just maybe, for some people anyhow the problem and the answer aren't capable of being reduced to biochemistry or aren't principally in the realm of biochemistry.

This is not intended to be critical, I've been there with all the functional medicine labs, the organic acids and the oxidative stress panels, mitochondrial function, the microanalysis of SNPs, the advice from all sorts of well-intentioned people on the internet and the phone and offices, all sorts of other tests and modalities and what not, the fine-tuned supplement regimes, even drugs. But none of it made any difference, and pathologizing my anxiety and fatigue (that is, attributing them to some biochemical problem or problems that could be fixed by pills and not thinking them at all in the context of my life) in retrospect seems a bad idea.
 
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Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
@Omega Terus: They are mostly symptoms of mercury poisoning (tho the stitch when running is a pyroluria symptom). However they could equally be caused by other things; a trial of Cutler protocol chelation might be the best way to get a better indication of the cause of your problems. A strong + or - response would be suggestive of mercury.
 

Tunguska

Senior Member
Messages
516
I've had similar problems at different stages and still do except that my anxiety is all but gone. Don't have many answers but can comment.

30g glutamine is very high. It can cause anxiety on its own. Exacerbated if your diet is already high-protein. High doses of taurine and NAC both cause emotional dulling and slowness for me.

I think those level doses, every day, are too high for most people. I only take those amounts in periods of increased sickness (flu) or stress or testing. Though not quite 30g glutamine. TMG gives some people anxiety as well.

You might want to consider that some of those supplements can cancel each other's mental effects out quite well, and BBB penetration is an issue.

You could try looking more into the nootropics side like someone said. Someone suggested switching choline for TMG, but alpha-gpc sometimes works better for some reason (careful the dosage, can have withdrawal). I think it also calls for stopping lithium.

Anxiety and the rest of your symptoms might have different causes.
 
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I have had similar symptoms plus CFS. Like the prior poster I am still searching for answers. But there are couple of things that jumped out to me that I should caution you that I learned the hard way. Because you are undermethylated and have "pure" OCD (like me), other than the more obvious ones that you probably already know, these things can make it worse - higher dosage of cholines (based on Dr Walsh protocol in his book "nutrient power"), higher dosages of glutamate (glutamate when not converted into GABA is an excitory neurotransmitter meaning increases anxiety and stress), folic acid, B9 (again, according to Dr Walsh). I also saw that you take Spinach. Spinach is a major folate/choline source - too much in fact for me, and it also increases histamine levels very high. As an undermethylater your histamine must already be high. So I would avoid Spinach as much as possible. The above observations are based on my experience.

By the way, if you have figured out any other things that work for you, I would be curious to get updates from you as I suffer from similar symptoms.
 
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The strange thing is, that while I am undermethylated, according to my SAMe/SAH ratio (low SAMe, high SAH), my whole blood histamine is actually low: 28.2 mcg/l, and Dr Walsh says that everything below 40 is overmethylated.

These two parameters where measured from the same blood sample, so no change between measurements possible.

So here is where the whole Walsh theory falls apart. I'd love to hear what he has to say about such an unusual contradiction, because there is no mention in his book about such possibility. But somewhere in the book he writes that SAMe/SAH ratio is definitive, the gold standard. I think whole blood histamine is only used because there are very few labs which measure SAMe/SAH ratio, and all of them in the US I think. My blood was sent to US from Europe and I waited 2 month for the result.

My blood platelets serotonin is lowish (close to bottom range), dopamine is over the range, acetylcholine close to the bottom end of the range.

Now I want to support acetylcholine with DMAE, Vitamin B5 and Alpha GPC (GlyceroPhosphoCholine) because I think much of my problem are poor acetylcholine status, but Walsh says DMAE, Vitamin B5 and choline source are bad for undermethylated. Which goes contrary to the need to support acetylcholine.

I don't know what to believe, I'd love to ask Dr. Walsh this, but generally I plan to trial with DMAE, Vitamin B5 and Alpha GPC. Exactly against Walsh recommendation, I know, but gives no solution if my acetylcholine is close to the bootm range, and much of my symptoms are consistent with low brain acetylcholine.

Maybe Walsh is wrong, or he doesn't cover all cases?
 
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You may wish to do a Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis to assess your copper levels. If high, nutitrional balancing may prove helpful.
 
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You may wish to do a Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis to assess your copper levels. If high, nutitrional balancing may prove helpful.

Done that already a long time ago, several times. Also RBC minerals. Actually my copper levels are a bit low after supplementing 65 mg Zinc a day for a few months. I started eating liver again to get my copper up a bit.
 
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Done that already a long time ago, several times. Also RBC minerals. Actually my copper levels are a bit low after supplementing 65 mg Zinc a day for a few months. I started eating liver again to get my copper up a bit.
Did you find it helpful to reduce copper levels. Dimish OCD symptoms?
 
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Did you find it helpful to reduce copper levels. Dimish OCD symptoms?

No, and my copper wasn't even high in the first place, I was supplementing zinc because of zinc deficiency. Copper was lowish actually too, now my ratio is skewed with too much zinc too little copper. Doesn't make a difference with OCD.
 
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I started eating liver again to get my copper up a bit.
Organ meats like beef liver have super high folate and choline. But then again that is from Dr Walsh's protocol and you don't buy it. In my case, beef liver also has high histamine level so that is another thing to consider if you buy the whole histamine argument. How do you feel after you eat the liver?
 
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I don't notice feeling any different eating liver, I don't think anything is worse.

I have tested whole blood histamine again, with another lab, and this time its 84.1 ng/ml, so now its high. In December 2015 it was 28.2 ng/ml.

I wonder if it was supplementing with 1500 mg L-Histidine HCl daily that turned it around. How I decreased that to 500mg daily (after the test). Waiting for SAMe/SAH ratio result.

Now I think, that because methylation is the process which destroys histamine, histamine can be low when someone is overmethylated, but histamine could also be low when there is just not much histamine to begin with, for other reasons, like low histidine? Is this probable? I had low plasma histidine levels also at the December 2015 test. So maybe that's why my histamine might have been low, despite undermethylation. Relying on one marker can be misleading. Even relying on one lab. Now I will try to test the same thing with 2 or 3 different labs at the same time, to catch any inconsistencies.

Regarding folate Walsh writes that it increases serotonin reuptake. I had low serotonin symptoms all life, blood platelets test in December had low serotonin, now I took 2000 mcg folate a day for several months, and I don't feel any worse with it. Nor any better. Now I decreased the folate to 1200 mcg a day, because my serum folate levels got over the top of the reference range.

Walsh writes that folate, choline, manganese, copper, DMAE, pantothenic acid (and maybe even B12, I'm not sure) increase the amount of SERT (serotonin transporter), which causes less serotonin to be available in the right places of the brain. How did Walsh come to that conclusion, and is it possible to measure my SERT levels? Are there any other scientists who confirmed that theory, because anything I read on the subject comes from Walsh and Walsh only. Is he the lone genius and everyone else doesn't notice this?

I am not really convinced that dropping folate, manganese, avoiding choline and copper will fix my serotonin problem. I need some marker to track my SERT levels and check that is really the problem in my body.

There is some study hinting its possible to asses serotonin transporter levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16934400