I have a question, please ( Cd4/ Cd8 ratio)

[funkyqueen]

Agree, @halcyon ( i guessed this paper had his own thread yet)

 

[halcyon]

If abnormal cd ratio with cfs for greater than 3 years???????

In the paper @funkyqueen just linked they claim no association with duration of illness and reduced CD4/CD8 ratio.

 

[Ellkaye]

Would be interesting to know if ME patients ratios are in fact always normal even if their actual counts are low, and how this progresses or not as time goes on if they get much sicker/much older but depends if they are untreated/treated. Unknown territory for now,or perhaps known in fact by the very clever experienced scientists out there in their studies.

I am not sure what abnormal ratios necessarily indicate to be honest. Perhaps counts evolution are a much better marker especially in those with abnormal ratios who are seeking to stabilize their abnormal ratios for their disease(s) with autoimmune modulators? Do the counts improve/normalize/stabilize as significantly as the ratio?

Pretty complex stuff. As diseases progress in individuals all sorts can happen.
I wonder,what is the best consistent marker.

 

[nandixon]

My CD4/CD8 ratio was in the lower normal range at 1.35 (ref 0.86-5.00).

Absolute CD4+ cells were low at 382 (ref 490-1740 cells/uL).

Absolute CD8+ cells were normal at 283 (ref 180-1170) cells/uL).

 

[Mij]

I should mention that my numbers were all in normal range during the first several years of illness. They dropped after the 12yr mark and ratio increased.

 

[Ellkaye]

Thanks funkyqueen for this thread.

Would be very interested to see what effect arv s/arv supplements have on the low cd4 counts of those with a normal cd4/8 ratio (as they'd also have a low cd8) and see if cd4 increases and cd8 increases in terms of counts but ratio staying more or less the same.

I reckon that might be a unique enough marker perhaps?

I have no idea what rituximab would do.
Does it increase immunity?

 

[funkyqueen]

You are welcome, Ellkaye

Rituximab is a B cells depletion's therapy, so, instead, you find yourself largely immunocompromised, following this treatment... I have no ideas of what could be my Cd4 / Cd8 ratio before treatment

 

[morse27]

My french internist doctor explain me RITUXAN effect incruise always: T lymph, CD4 and CD8 imbalance.

i have made in open medicine institute in california large blood test before running rituxan therapy with details of these data,
(dec 2014) , its curious doc Kaufman cant give this level of CD4 or CD8

all was normal before Rituxan treatment ,
except for NK cells elevated up 20%. (24% in my case)
its normal in gulf war syndrom disease.

after 5 courses doses of 1 gramme ,my level of NK Cells is now to 38% ( normal range is between 10 to 20%) .
the innate system of gulf war veterans is completely reversed compared to EM/CFS patients which has the contrary level NK cells, very low for all .
WARNING : rituxan can destroy strongly your health , its a major risk for you
after one year , i think it offer me nothing , or fewer benefits regarding risk and side effect

 

[halcyon]

i have made in open medicine institute in california large blood test before running rituxan therapy

OMI treated you for GWS with rituximab?

 

[morse27]

yes @halcyon

 

[morse27]

OMF works on many other neurologic diseases , ,not only for ME/CFS

prior is for ME now in reason there many millions ME sufferers in the world than GWS ( 75 000 in live) !

 

[morse27]

i think it will be necessary to receive more 6 doses of rituxan to obtain complete remission for this illness and long duration treatment

 

[morse27]

explanation of differences with chronic fatigue syndrom and GWS in NCBI study
i ask to sushi to create a new thread in co existing missed diagnose :
ASIA syndrom is similar in many symptom with ME , but mens with GWS have hypogonadism and no ME mens sufferers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25813870

 

[halcyon]

OMF works on many other neurologic diseases , ,not only for ME/CFS

I'm aware of that, I just didn't realize there was any prior basis for using that treatment on GWS.

 

[nandixon]

I have no ideas of what could be my Cd4 / Cd8 ratio before treatment

I would have thought that either Dr. Kaufman or Dr. Kogelnik (depending on whom you saw at the Open Medicine Institute) would have ordered testing that included that information prior to any rituximab treatment.(?)

If you didn't receive copies of some of your test results, you can either request that they send them to you, or you can access your test results directly via the OMI patient portal at www.openmednet.org/patient (you click on "Documents" to retrieve test results after signing in).

 

[morse27]

there was not prior for GWS or ME , this drug is used for many autoimmune diseases , and GWS is an auto immune disease , no research make on this since 24 years , its very urgent to find a treatment , all GWS sufferers dying every day , all are severe , many was died between 6 to 8 years after come back Irak, cause is squalene vaccine shoot (250 000 were sick in 1991, and today just 75 000 are in live , just moderate form its possible to say , all (100%) of GWS sufferers will be dying after some years.its not the same ratio for ME sufferers (20% severe)

 

[Ellkaye]

CD4, CD8 etc. below normal range, except for NK numbers (not function) at normal range. Ratio increased.

@Kati Thank you and I looked at the labs more carefully and it does give the CD4/CD8 ratio and I don't know how I missed it! My ratio was normal at 2.09 and the range was from 0.80 to 5.00.

For most of us, we will be within range. HIV patients who have VERY very low CD4 counts wil have a very low ratio, but then the drs would have figured out otherwise that they were indeed very sick.

Mine ratio was low when measured 5 months after onset. Haven't had this test repeated.

@funkyqueen I saw that, new Maes paper (I'm guessing). Probably deserves its own thread.

My french internist doctor explain me RITUXAN effect incruise always: T lymph, CD4 and CD8 imbalance.

i have made in open medicine institute in california large blood test before running rituxan therapy with details of these data,
,together with funky (dec 2014) , its curious doc Kaufman cant give this level of CD4 or CD8

all was normal before Rituxan treatment ,
except for NK cells elevated up 20%. (24% in my case)
its normal in gulf war syndrom disease.

after 5 courses doses of 1 gramme ,my level of NK Cells is now to 38% ( normal range is between 10 to 20%) .
the innate system of gulf war veterans is completely reversed compared to EM/CFS patients which has the contrary level NK cells, very low for all .
WARNING : rituxan can destroy strongly your health , its a major risk for you
after one year , i think it offer me nothing , or fewer benefits regarding risk and side effect

What were your cd4 counts ?
Not ratio.

 

[halcyon]

What were your cd4 counts ?

CD4+ Lymphocytes (359-1519 /uL) 734
CD8+ Lymphocytes (109-897 /uL) 858

 

[Mij]

counts

CD4 Absolute # of Lymphocytes 533(700-1100)

CD8 234(500-900)

Can I ask why you are focused on CD4? The virologist I saw was more concerned about CD8.

 

[Gingergrrl]

What were your cd4 counts ?
Not ratio.

@Ellkaye I have two CD4 counts and two CD8 counts and both were normal. Am not sure why there are two or how they differ? They are:

CD4: 46 (range 32-62)
CD4: 615 (range 381-1469)

CD8: 22 (range 12-45)
CD8: 294 (range 196-1060)

I suspect it is the second set of numbers that you are interested in but I listed them all just in case.