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I am undergoing ozone therapy

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by gracie, Dec 8, 2009.

  1. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    $40 ozone generators on eBay don't work for therapeutic purposes. I have one. The key to ozone therapy is combining 100% oxygen. Ozone generators create a single molecule of oxygen, it's what they do, combined with oxygen creates O3 or 3 combined oxygen molecules. When combined with pure 100% oxygen the percentage output of ozone gas is still very low, something like 2-3%, low but still effective. So if you combined it with ambient air which is 20% oxygen you would get an output concentration of ozone of .4% to .6% or even less because it's very unstable, so it's just not an effective therapeutic dose. The cheap eBay generators might in fact make good ozone, I don't know, but they don't provide the facility or connections to combine it with 100% oxygen, they're just to low a concentration and not set up for therapeutic purposes.

    Ozone for therapy purposes are measured in gamma concentrations and you can find them in concentrations of 50-70 gamma but I've seen them higher. I use 30-40 gamma for most of my home therapy purposes. I would be careful anyone trying to suggest that these cheaper ozone generators do anything other than provide a disinfectant effect, they are not for therapeutic use. This is very well documented in every reference to the therapeutic use of ozone.

    You need to study air embolisms in context to pure oxygen combined with ozone, it's not the same as you have displayed above. Nitrogen is the main problem when injecting ambient air into the vein, which is not the case here.

    Rectal insufflations are a very popular method of exposing the body to hundreds of different therapies and has used for hundreds of years. Good for you for finding some obscure study not pertaining to human beings. Rectal insufflations are probably the most popular method for people using home ozone therapy. It's easy and safe to administer.

    I've read dozens of books and articles, I work with 2 GPs who have studied ozone in Europe in med school and treat patients daily. I belong to several closed Facebook groups with thousands of other people who have read dozens of books and articles and use ozone therapy regularly at home and in clinics. Using ozone generators that don't combine with 100% oxygen for therapy purposes is unanimously panned.

    I use various forums like these to find new ideas to diagnose and tread problems I've had for 15 years where the traditional medical and science establishment have failed me. I find them invaluable and I am very thankful.

    But not every therapy works for ever person in the same manner. One mans bread is another man's poison. So I caution people to do their own research, weigh their own options, have an open mind, turn yourself into your own research scientist, be your own Dr, and you can do it because they are only humans with a curious mind. Don't seek answers in science that are 100% correct, there are always variables, it's about a risk to reward ratio, a percentage of success. If it has a better than 50% chance of working, but the risk is lower and acceptable, then it's worth a try. Be cautious, but don't wait for others to decide for you. For every scientific study you will find another to contradict, that's normal, because in science and health is not 100%, nothing is, it's based probabilities of success and percentages.

    Listen to people who have found something(s) that works, then bring it into your situation, all the complexities that are you, decide for yourself, self experiment, take risks but make sure they are reasonable. Don't listen to people who just pick things apart, that's easy, lazy, we can pick anything apart because nothing in science is 100% absolute. Look for forum posts where people ask why or how things work, look for fellow learners, look for posts that progress the conversation instead of contradicting it, that's just lazy and counter productive. Help yourself and help others, it's a cycle that works.

    Good Luck in your health journey. I hope this helps.
     
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I generally agree, and I am always very interested in exploring in great detail anything that has worked for other people. I am constantly experimenting myself with all sorts of therapies, with the aim of finding something that works for my enterovirus-associated ME/CFS. I don't see it as a contradiction to be both open-mindedly experimental and exploratory, but at the same time also questioning, and wanting to verify things. So don't take my questioning as being negative; it's just a desire to quantify and verify things. I am interested in the improvements you had on ozone, and I do appreciate you explaining them.



    That's interesting, I had not heard of the gamma measurement of ozone concentration before. It seems that 1 gamma = 1 milligram of ozone per liter of gas (that is to say, 1 gamma = 1 mg/L). Ref: here.

    My $40 ozone generator machine generates 400 mg of ozone per hour, and the nozzle outputs around 120 liters of gas per hour. So I just did a quick calculation, and determined that the gamma concentration achieved by my ozone generator is 3.3 gamma. So my machine outputs ozone that is about 10 times less concentrated that the ozone produced by your 30 to 40 gamma machine.

    However, I have seen inexpensive machines on eBay that pump out 10 times more ozone as my machine, and possibly these might be able to get gamma concentrations similar to your generator. The ozone generating machine pictured below costs £100 on the UK eBay, and pumps out 3500 mg of ozone per hour, which is around 10 times more than my machine pumps out, and I should think may be comparable to your machine.

    Ozone generator (3500 mg/hour) for sale at around £100 on the UK eBay
    Ozone Generator.png
    I think it is important to try to find cheaper approaches, because this would make ozone therapy more accessible to people. Not everyone wants to spend over $1,000 on an ozone machine just to see if it does help their Lyme or ME/CFS symptoms or not. Of the hundreds of therapies I have tried, most turned out not to help my ME/CFS.



    In terms of using even cheaper machines, like my $40 machine, although this outputs 10 times less ozone than yours, when making ozonated water, you may be able to compensate for this lower ozone concentration simply by bubbling the gas through the water for longer periods.

    When I make ozone water to apply to the skin of my body from head to toe (transdermal ozone), I use less than 50 ml of water (half a small glass of water), but I bubble ozone though this 50 ml water for 30 minutes (normally for a glass of water, I read that you would only bubble ozone for 5 minutes). So therefore this longer bubbling time I use should make up for the fact that my machine has a weaker ozone output.

    Also, if you read the "General Notes" section of the post I referred to earlier, you will see that there are some factors that play an important role in determining how much ozone is dissolved and preserved in the water (cold water holds twice as much ozone, acidic water prevents the dissolved ozone from rapidly decomposing). So getting this right also helps increase the ozone levels in your ozonated water.



    Are there any people with scientific backgrounds on these closed Facebook groups that might be able to answer the question of why ozone generators that use air, rather than pure oxygen, are undesirable? I have searched online, but cannot find an answer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  3. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    By the way, @Kiwi Jack, are you aware of anyone who has tried the transdermal ozone water technique I came up with (as detailed in the the post I referred to earlier)? It is a very easy method of application. I came up with this idea myself.

    My idea was that since ozone gas via a body bag works, then ozone water splashed onto the skin from head to toe should also work.
     
  4. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    I'm no expert Hip, and I'm not a practitioner, I'm just an average joe. I'm simply trying to help other people with what I've experienced. If you wish to contradict my post information, go for it. It doesn't appear to me you know much about ozone, but that's where we all start. To get further details there's literally tons of information on the internet, in published books, and pubmed. Ozone therapy has been studied for decades. I suggest you go deeper into the literature for the kind of answers you seek. Good Luck.
     
  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I am not really contradicting your information; I have taken what you said on board, and accept that everything you are saying may well be good advice. But I am just trying understand the reasons behind what you have said (which you have not indicated), in order to try to make sense of it.

    At least for the purpose of making ozonated water, at the moment, I can't really see why those cheaper machines would not work. Perhaps though for things like rectal insufflations of ozone gas, or ozone gas injections into veins, you would want a proper medical ozone machine. I will investigate further, and try to get a better understanding about the ins and outs of ozone generators.

    By the way, of the ozone therapy Facebook groups that you read, is there any one which you would recommend as being quite scientific, so that I can ask the sort of questions I am asking here?



    Regarding the methods of ozone administration you use (ozone water for drinking, one water enemas, rectal insufflations of ozone gas, ear insufflations, ozone sauna, ozone gas injections into a vein): do you have any information about the potency of each method? In this webpage, which compares some ozone administration methods, it says that rectal insufflation is almost as good (95% as good) as ozone autohemotherapy. So rectal insufflation seems like a potent method. Would you know how drinking ozone water compares to rectal insufflation, in terms of potency?

    Also, when you administer ozone to yourself, are there any immediate benefits that you feel in the hours or says just after?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2016
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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  7. Kiwi Jack

    Kiwi Jack

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    Sorry, I don't have the information you're looking for. I wish you good luck.
     
  8. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Hip where did you progress to with the ozone treatment? did you ever try a stronger machine and other methods of administration?
     
  9. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I have not really explored ozone treatment that much. I've done it on maybe 10 occasions, without noticing much benefit (other than having an anti-inflammatory effect on my chronic nasal/sinus inflammation).

    I apply ozone using my easy ozone transdermal application technique, which is a very inexpensive way to apply ozone (it only costs around £30 to buy an ozone generator on eBay, and that's your only outlay).



    According to Dr Velio Bocci, it may be ozone's effects on the metabolism (possibility including an immunomodulatory effect) that have benefits. The idea is that ozone puts the body under transient oxidative stress, and this stress activates biological mechanisms which may provide benefits, including the possible release of stem cells.

    I understand that ozone levels in the blood during ozone therapy are too low for ozone to have any germicidal action against viruses and bacteria (although I wonder if oxygen-sensitive pathogens like Borrelia might be susceptible to ozone because Borrelia is near anaerobic, and so pretty oxygen sensitive).



    I found a study on the treatment of hepatitis C virus infection using ozone interesting:

    Ozone Therapy Improves Hepatitis C Fatigue, and Reduces Viral Load. Could it Work for ME/CFS Too?

    Like chronic enterovirus infections, chronic hepatitis C virus infections also involve non-cytolytic infections (infections of double-stranded hepatitis C virus RNA within the cells). 1 So that makes me wonder whether ozone might be beneficial for the non-cytolytic enterovirus infections that many ME/CFS patients may have. However, there does not seem to be much evidence or anecdotes that ozone works for ME/CFS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
    Abha likes this.
  10. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    ok @Hip im going to give the dreaded rectal option a go.

    apparently the cold plasma units are the best as they are the only ones that do not produce nitrous oxide.

    also need to be sure the tubing is ozone resistant. should be a given but suppliers do cut corners to save on costs so

    must be checked first. ive yet to determine what the tubing should be made from though.

    lastly we would need a generator that produces ozone to a significant output

    in your research did you find any models that fit these requirements? thanks
     
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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  12. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I just bought a cheap ozone machine on eBay, I don't know much about ozone machines.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  13. Olena

    Olena

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    I use a household ozonizer for all vegetables before preparing the salad. It is also suitable for the production of ozonated water.

    Ozone is good for my illnesses. I can not use oxygen because of brucellosis
     
  14. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Olena you feel a difference from ozone water?

    What machine do you use?
     
  15. Olena

    Olena

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  16. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Hip did you ever get decent effects from ozone water? You still do it?
     
  17. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I still sometimes use ozone water splashed on the skin from head to toe as a treatment. I have the impression that this can help kick you out of a bad phase, when your symptoms have got temporarily worse. Ozone seems to produce a beneficial jolt to the system.

    This transdermal use of ozone is far kinder to the body that oral ozone water. If I take the latter, it really messes up my digestion. I think ozone is a bit rough on the intestinal mucous membranes. Whereas absorbed transdermally on the skin I get no side effects.


    Because Chinese ozone generators are so cheap on eBay (you can get them for $30), it's very inexpensive to try my transdermal ozone technique.

    If you try it, it is a good idea to put some ice in the water, as ozone dissolves better in colder water. And add some vinegar, as ozone is more stable in acidic conditions. I usually use around 60 ml of water in a glass (don't use plastic with ozone), with an ice cube in it, and a tablespoon of vinegar.

    I bubble the ozone through that water for 30 minutes using the airstone that is supplied with my ozone generator. Then I go to the bathroom, take off my clothes, and apply this 60 ml of water to my body skin from head to toe, letting it dry in for a couple of minutes before putting my clothes back on.

    My ozone transdermal application technique is detailed here.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  18. samtemp

    samtemp

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    I just stumbled onto this forum and hope my ongoing experience with ozone DIV (Direct IV injection of the gas) helps.

    My situation is most similar to @Kiwi Jack . I'm 44 years old and I have had an illness for 11 years. For the past 6 years I've been unable to hold a steady job. The past year has been the worst with me feeling like I would die before morning. Before then, I worked 60+ hours a week, exercised and was fit and enjoying life.

    I'm currently undergoing ozone therapy with one of the two most well-known Doctors specializing in ozone in the US. I am receiving 55 ccs of 55 gamma ozone injected directly into my veins. Over the past 3 weeks I've received 10 such ozone injections. I started daily, but over the past 7 days I've tapered off to every other day (mainly to give some of my veins rest from hardening). I wish I could do DIV (Direct IV) daily, but last thing I want are permanently collapsed veins or hardened veins.

    To clarify the questions here about embolism risks, embolism risks arise from nitrogen gas which makes up 80% of all the air around us. It's the nitrogen gas alone that kills. Professional therapy-grade ozone gas is comprised of pure ozone and oxygen. That's it. There is zero nitrogen. Oxygen gas is very rapidly absorbed by your red blood cells while the ozone gas is rapidly converted to oxygen while killing pathogens it comes into contact with and also stimulating your immune cells to do their work. A $40 machine will not make this type of pure ozone/oxygen gas. Only a $1,000+ setup may be capable of that.

    @Hip 's $40 setup seems to be fine for the transdermal method. But it seems to me that this transdermal method, while relatively safe with just 3 gamma and nitrogen-risk-free, will have limited effect on pathogens. Therapeutic gamma per treatment is in the 30-60 range in up to 80 CC doses. Gamma can go as high as 80 (but should never exceed that). At these levels, you will most certainly will feel things happening to your body.

    The ozone has done wonders. In the day leading up to my first treatment I couldn't sleep, was in miserable pain, and was expecting to die very soon. I was at rock bottom. Zero %. The ozone made a difference by the second treatment and I've improved tremendously ever since. A few days ago I felt as good as 90% back to normal. I was able to smile, joke around with my wife, whistle songs, and get back to my good old chipper form.

    My symptoms are unfortunately returning now (it's 3:06am as I type this). My chest pains are starting up again and the nightmares prod me back up when I nod off to sleep. But even so, it's not as bad as it was before. I'm maybe 40% of normal. I'm just trying to hold on until my own promolife ozone setup arrives tomorrow (likely a similar set to @Kiwi Jack 's). Once i get that, I need to have my Ozone doctor fill my oxygen tanks and then start the insufflations immediately - at least twice a day.

    My situation is unique. My short experience with DIV ozone tells me that I need a very intense treatment in order to keep my disease at bay. Ozone buys me time, but I know it will not cure me. I am 99% certain that I have several small infections in my mandible jaw and chin, and these will not be cured by ozone. Ozone helps kill the organisms (fungal and bacterial) that are roaming around my blood vessels, but it cannot penetrate into tissues with poor blood supplies (like infected bone) to kill the source infection sites. For that, I'll need surgeries.

    My plan is to do enough ozone until I can maintain 90% normalcy with only 3 ozone treatments a week. Once I stabilize myself there, I will be doing the surgeries (I suspect I'll need multiple ones) to debride the infections and reconstruct the damaged bones). Once those are satisfactorily done, I'll head over to the Cleveland Clinic to look into my heart. I have 3 prolapsed valves and due to my chronic infection, I'm quite certain that my valves have sustained further damage. If surgery is needed there, too, I'll get that done as well. long road ahead.
     
  19. samtemp

    samtemp

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    Can I post the names of doctors or clinics here? If not, PM me and I'll tell you.

    I'm in NYC and the most experienced DIV ozone doctor practices here. Google "ozone doctor nyc" and he'll pop up.

    Good luck
     
  20. samtemp

    samtemp

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    How has the chelation been working out?

    My story resembles yours a lot, albeit with disease etiology being a big difference. Are you by any chance in NYC?

    I'm currently seeing a doctor who also does the Rowen 10-pass ozone autohemotherapy, however, due to the cost and the bigger needles and risks to veins, I decided to just do the DIV (Direct gas injection) which my doctor apparently perfected. This has worked really well for me.

    I'm receiving my Promolife bundle tomorrow and will start insufflations ASAP as my daily mainstay, with DIV self administered perhaps once a week. Can I ask where and how you get your oxygen? I need to fill my small tank at my doctor's who charges $60 per refill. And Do you find ear insufflations to help?

    Thanks.
     

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