I have been much more hungry since getting sick, especially for protein. It's like it I can't get enough protein in me. I've also had what I think is abnormal muscle loss. I have basically no muscle it seems. I don't know if these two things might be related. Have others experienced this same thing? I just don't feel like I can get full without some animal protein (seafood for now) every day these days. In the past this was not the case at all. What could be responsible? A digestion issue or something else?
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Hungry/starving for protein since getting sick?
- Thread starter Ocean
- Start date
Enid, any chance you noticed anything that helped your muscles, or did they just seem to improve without a noticeable cause? I started digestive enzymes thinking maybe it would somehow help. And they have helped my stomach feel more comfortable in general but no help with my muscles so far.
I was pretty far gone in those days Ocean a the weight tumbled off - most descriptive is what they call post polio syndrome (could hardly breathe at one stage too). Wish I could pin point something that particularly aided but followed the marvellous document "Engaging with ME" by Prof Malcolm Hooper - Treatment sections the Gut - protocols from the Canadians, Sunderland and Inst. of Functional Medicine (2003) amongst them. I'll check to see if it's still on line and give you the link.
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How much protein a day are you getting now? IMO people need red meat, and other sources are not a replacement long term. Supplements could mimic the red meat but probably miss some trace nutrients.
I find I must start the morning with protein of some description and now have meats at least 3 dinners a week, fish at least twice. My supps only thyroxine, glutamine, probiotics and vits/mins now. Hope Rich will step in but my working in the past has been 4 step - Remove, Replace , Reinoculate and Repair with regard to the gut knowing that is where it all started.
Still looking for Prof Hooper's document but another thing I found helpful at one stage was Domperidone to ease GI functions.
Still looking for Prof Hooper's document but another thing I found helpful at one stage was Domperidone to ease GI functions.
If the Krebs Cycle can't get enough energy from carbohydrates or fats, it will break down proteins to feed into the Cycle later. If there's not enough protein available when your body wants it, it will break down your muscles to fuel your cells. My lab results indicated this is probably happening somewhat even when I'm not pushing or crashing, and I think it gets a lot worse when crashing.
I take 18-36 grams of protein three times per day, from a protein shake. I use micellar casein because it's absorbed slowly, so longer acting. It seems to be helping with my crash symptoms at the higher dose, and I generally feel a bit better at the lower dose when I'm not crashing.
So maybe something similar is happening with you, and your body knows things work better when you've got more protein, and triggers the cravings for it.
I take 18-36 grams of protein three times per day, from a protein shake. I use micellar casein because it's absorbed slowly, so longer acting. It seems to be helping with my crash symptoms at the higher dose, and I generally feel a bit better at the lower dose when I'm not crashing.
So maybe something similar is happening with you, and your body knows things work better when you've got more protein, and triggers the cravings for it.
xchocoholic
Senior Member
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I need real meat, not processed, every few hours too. Not too much at one sitting tho. I was eating 1/4 lb at each meal but backed off to 1/4 lb a day. I'm a celiac and my labs just showed that I'm missing elastase.
Have you looked at celiac disease or tried digestive enzymes ? The otc enzymes helped me at first but
now I'm trying creon.
Oddly, I have muscles even with all this. And I gain muscle strength quickly with strength training.
Freaky .. Tc .. X
Have you looked at celiac disease or tried digestive enzymes ? The otc enzymes helped me at first but
now I'm trying creon.
Oddly, I have muscles even with all this. And I gain muscle strength quickly with strength training.
Freaky .. Tc .. X
organic rice protein together with pea protein make a full spec protein, mix a spoonful of each into any sort of milk to icrease your protein. I can't take it as I'm intolerant to peas, but hoping some NAET will help me with that. I'm a great believer in listening to your body, doing what feels right.
SickofSickness, I don't know actual amounts but usually in one meal a day, sometimes all 3. I think I"m going to eat it at all three meals each day. I don't eat any red meat and for now don't plan to. In the future, perhaps someday. What supplements do you recommend? Thank you.
Maryb, vegetarian protein is not doing it for me. In the past it did, but since getting sick my body has not been satisfied without animal protein, seafood for me for now.
Xchoc, can you tell me what the elastase has to do with it, I don't know anything about it. I've considered looking into getting a celiac test. Would possibly having that affect my muscles and protein cravings. I have started taking digestive enzymes recently. I've never heard of creon. I envy you your muscles! It really bothers me that mine are gone.
Valentjn, I just saw your blog post on this. That's very interesting and maybe that is what is happening. Aside from getting more protein, is there a way to actually fix the root of the problem with the Kreb's cycle?
Enid can you give any more info on that 4 step idea?
Thanks everyone.
Maryb, vegetarian protein is not doing it for me. In the past it did, but since getting sick my body has not been satisfied without animal protein, seafood for me for now.
Xchoc, can you tell me what the elastase has to do with it, I don't know anything about it. I've considered looking into getting a celiac test. Would possibly having that affect my muscles and protein cravings. I have started taking digestive enzymes recently. I've never heard of creon. I envy you your muscles! It really bothers me that mine are gone.
Valentjn, I just saw your blog post on this. That's very interesting and maybe that is what is happening. Aside from getting more protein, is there a way to actually fix the root of the problem with the Kreb's cycle?
Enid can you give any more info on that 4 step idea?
Thanks everyone.
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I don't know which ones. I eat red meat. I can feel the difference when I have been without red meat for 3-8 days. The feeling is worse when I don't have any meat and only had fish. Seafood is usually a good source, good grams of protein in each ounce.
For a long time I thought it was ok to have meat at dinner only. It took me years to learn that a 1/4 lb burger patty has a lot of protein but not enough for a day, even with an egg or glass of milk that day. Sedentary people need less protein than active people, but I think we need more than the minimum, more than sedentary people, just like someone with the flu should try and get better nutrition than they normally get. They might not be able to. So we need somewhere around 50 grams of protein, or more, for every 100 lbs we weigh. That's 75 grams for a 150 lb PWC. Active people trying to gain muscle usually have 2 to 6 times as much protein than that!
For a long time I thought it was ok to have meat at dinner only. It took me years to learn that a 1/4 lb burger patty has a lot of protein but not enough for a day, even with an egg or glass of milk that day. Sedentary people need less protein than active people, but I think we need more than the minimum, more than sedentary people, just like someone with the flu should try and get better nutrition than they normally get. They might not be able to. So we need somewhere around 50 grams of protein, or more, for every 100 lbs we weigh. That's 75 grams for a 150 lb PWC. Active people trying to gain muscle usually have 2 to 6 times as much protein than that!
Not thus far ... no one even seems to know exactly where or why things are breaking down. If it's a problem with a specific enzyme or deficiency, then it's probably somewhere between glucose being successfully formed and the glucose being eventually transformed into citric acid, based on lab results. Or maybe a more general or indirect regulator of the Krebs Cycle is screwy (epinephrine, etc).
I did find a small study showing that citric acid supplementation of 2.7 grams per day helps energy and physical performance of healthy people, so that might be an easy way to fuel the Krebs Cycle without eating a lot of meat. But I'm not sure how it should be supplemented - it's cheap as a bulk powder, but does it get absorbed and used properly in that form, or does it need to be encapsulated, etc?
taniaaust1
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I usually eat 500-800g of meat per day.. and need protein every meal.
I didnt understand this craving for so much protein until it was found that I have hyperinsulinemia.... due to this high insulin, I do in fact actually need to be eatting protein in every meal etc.. to help stop my insulin shooting up too high. My body must of just known this before even the diagnoses of it.
I didnt understand this craving for so much protein until it was found that I have hyperinsulinemia.... due to this high insulin, I do in fact actually need to be eatting protein in every meal etc.. to help stop my insulin shooting up too high. My body must of just known this before even the diagnoses of it.
heapsreal
iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
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Ocean, are u losing weight u dont want to lose??
An amino acid supp Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (OKG) can help if your in a muscle wasting states and can help someone stay in an anabolic state and avoid catobolism(muscle wasting), I have seen it written that it helps alot with muscle wasting in severe burns victims as well by keeping people in a positive nitrogen balance. a positive nitrogen balance is suppose to go hand in hand with anabolism. http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/okg.htm
cheers!!!
An amino acid supp Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (OKG) can help if your in a muscle wasting states and can help someone stay in an anabolic state and avoid catobolism(muscle wasting), I have seen it written that it helps alot with muscle wasting in severe burns victims as well by keeping people in a positive nitrogen balance. a positive nitrogen balance is suppose to go hand in hand with anabolism. http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/okg.htm
cheers!!!
RustyJ
Contaminated Cell Line 'RustyJ'
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Interesting product. I have muscle wasting. Very frustrating. Can buy nutrabio product off ebay for shipping to Australia. Has anyone tried it? Have you tried it Heaps.
November Girl
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Two things that helped me -
I used to find it very difficult to digest meat. Large amounts of digestive enzymes helped, but hardly made the project go away. I found out I had some food allergies or sensitivities, and stopped eating wheat and some other things. Within a short time, eating meat became far more comfortable.
Several years later, I was told that my body just wasn't processing the protein I ate. I don't remember the whole explanation, but a large part of the problem was that my stomach just wasn't producing enough acid to break down the proteins properly. I started taking betaine HCL with my meals, and was soon able to drop all the antacids, both Rx and OTC.
I used to find it very difficult to digest meat. Large amounts of digestive enzymes helped, but hardly made the project go away. I found out I had some food allergies or sensitivities, and stopped eating wheat and some other things. Within a short time, eating meat became far more comfortable.
Several years later, I was told that my body just wasn't processing the protein I ate. I don't remember the whole explanation, but a large part of the problem was that my stomach just wasn't producing enough acid to break down the proteins properly. I started taking betaine HCL with my meals, and was soon able to drop all the antacids, both Rx and OTC.
heapsreal
iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
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rusty i havent ordered from those guys, but i ordered some okg a few years ago from bodybuilding.com, just looked at the site and cant see the product i used, another is HMB that weight lifters use and can get from iherb http://www.iherb.com/Optimum-Nutrition-HMB-1000-mg-90-Capsules/30185
Ocean @ 10 your query about the 4R approach is basically what we are all doing really. Remove - toxins, bacteria, allergic foods, pathogenic organisms (inc tests and treatments). Replace - essential components of the gastrointestinal tract, gastric acids, gut enzymes. Reinoculate - for microbial integrity, probiotics. Repair - gut wall, glutamine, antioxidants for oxidative stress. There are so many supps available for each one takes one's choice. Check out the Gut section.