How to manage Occipital Neuralgia (migraine), Atypical Trigeminal Neuralgia

[Crux]

Do you have any thoughts on what is causing the dyshomeostasis and how to correct it?

It could be genetic. There are many snps that increase iron absorption. There are also snps. that mess with copper metabolism.

If copper is low, iron can accumulate, same with zinc. B vitamins are of course involved with metals metabolism. I used to megadose B2 to treat the migraine.

Anything acidic increases iron absorption.

If I have anything acidic for a prolonged time, such as vinegars and fermented foods, I'll have neuropathy return. In the past, a shingles outbreak would occur at the same time. I haven't had an outbreak in some months, when it used to be consecutive for years.

I haven't had the occipital neuralgia in more than 6 mnths.

I've been chelating iron with : green tea, quercitin, and r-lipoic acid. They are very strong, so I've had to back down the dosage. I've also been taking copper, but, it may be too acidic to begin with.

 

[Violeta]

It could be genetic. There are many snps that increase iron absorption. There are also snps. that mess with copper metabolism.

If copper is low, iron can accumulate, same with zinc. B vitamins are of course involved with metals metabolism. I used to megadose B2 to treat the migraine.

Anything acidic increases iron absorption.

If I have anything acidic for a prolonged time, such as vinegars and fermented foods, I'll have neuropathy return. In the past, a shingles outbreak would occur at the same time. I haven't had an outbreak in some months, when it used to be consecutive for years.

I haven't had the occipital neuralgia in more than 6 mnths.

I've been chelating iron with : green tea, quercitin, and r-lipoic acid. They are very strong, so I've had to back down the dosage. I've also been taking copper, but, it may be too acidic to begin with.

Thank you both to @prioris and @Crux for your input. The shingles has been a nightmare but I might be better off after it's over than I was before I came down with it.

I found that B2 helped me to no longer get severe lung infections, and I think it's because it helped clear out toxic iron stores. I guess it's a different matter getting it out of nerves and maybe lymphatics and especially the brain. Yesterday I even started to look up whether lithium orotate helps with iron metabolism regulation but didn't get too far with that yet. I think I remember seeing that copper has something to do with tau protein build up, so maybe it helps by dealing with copper somehow.

Vinegar, fermented foods, and acidic foods bother me, too. I don't remember them causing a herpes outbreak, can't remember if it brings on occipital neuralgia, but I do remember when I was at a very low point of joint problems, and tomato products would bring the joint pain on almost immediately. It's no longer doing that, but maybe maybe it's making the facial neuralgia worse.

Are you able to eat dairy or red meat? I feel like I need at least a small amount of dairy, even if it's just some good quality heavy cream, but it seems to make the morning neuralgia worse. Red meat, just can't eat it, probably because of the iron.

Are the only things you have had to do to stop the herpes outbreaks and occipital neuralgia the green tea, quercetin, and r-lipoic acid plus alterations to your diet?

 

[Violeta]

I forgot to bring up the topic of vitamin c. I have had vitamin c deficiency symptoms since I was a child. I'm reading that it's very helpful for herpetic trigeminal neuralgia. I am getting back on it today, I mix ascorbic acid with magnesium carbonate and sodium bicarbonate. When I tried it a couple of weeks ago when I was really sick I couldn't handle it, but it's at least not bothering me today.

I realize it helps with iron absorption, but maybe it helps with correct iron usage by the body, I don't know.
It certainly helps with issues with the gums.

The other thing I've been thinking about today is Th1/Th2 immune system imbalance. I think I may have had this since youth, too. I think bad reaction to a vaccine can cause this. This could be related to a silica deficiency, something I saw in a homeopathic materia medica. Big ball of wax, difficult to untangle.

Thanks for any input.

 

[Crux]

Vinegar, fermented foods, and acidic foods bother me, too. I don't remember them causing a herpes outbreak, can't remember if it brings on occipital neuralgia, but I do remember when I was at a very low point of joint problems, and tomato products would bring the joint pain on almost immediately. It's no longer doing that, but maybe maybe it's making the facial neuralgia worse.

It's been maddening trying to figure out what's triggered the occipital neuralgia, along with the shingles, joint pain, and even canker sores. The shingles would usually come after the neuralgia,sometimes after a day or two. Citric acid was a trigger too. ( tomato )

At one time, anything that increased nitric oxide was a trigger : microbes, lactic acid bacteria, etc.

Vitamin C has been problematic too, but food based was ok in low dose.

Are you able to eat dairy or red meat? I feel like I need at least a small amount of dairy, even if it's just some good quality heavy cream, but it seems to make the morning neuralgia worse. Red meat, just can't eat it, probably because of the iron.

I can eat red meat if I braise it for 2-3 hrs., lower cooking times are trouble.
I'm fine with cheese that's been ripened. The calcium lowers iron absorption.
Heavy cream, and higher lactose foods still cause gut trouble. There are gut microbes that ferment lactose, then grow, then produce NO, lactate, etc.

Are the only things you have had to do to stop the herpes outbreaks and occipital neuralgia the green tea, quercetin, and r-lipoic acid plus alterations to your diet?

These have been very effective, a surprise because I've taken them in the past, but not for very long, with iron chelation purposes. I also tried apolactoferrin for a short time. It does seem to work, but, the others seem to be more effective.

I took antibiotics for a prolonged time - they lowered NO production, which lowered the neuralgia. ( Tetracyline abx chelate iron.)

I've also been taking copper ; it regulates iron. ( It normalized elevated iron markers in two iron panels I had done.)
Copper can increase NO, so it may not be good for starters.)

Researchers are still trying to find how iron is involved with neurodegenerative diseases. It's beginning to look like it's iron dyshomeostasis, with tau, copper, and zinc caught in the 'crossfire'.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5066274/

 

[Gondwanaland]

At one time, anything that increased nitric oxide was a trigger : microbes, lactic acid bacteria, etc.

What about acidity per se? I run into troubles from taking pepsin and got immediate relief from drinking 1/8 tsp sodium bicarb diluted in water as per sweet taste in tongue.

 

[Crux]

What about acidity per se?

As simple as it seems, yes anything acidic has caused pain. Sodium bicarb. and potassium bicarb. helped to a degree, but it was temporary for me.

 

[Gondwanaland]

anything that increased nitric oxide was a trigger

anything high arginine + lactic acid + ascorbic acid = increased need for lysine

however in my experience most high lysine foods are very acidifying and cause worsening of my bursitises

it is very hard to balance it all

@Violeta are you improving?

 

[Crux]

however in my experience most high lysine foods are very acidifying and cause worsening of my bursitises

I tried lysine over and over. All I got was constipated. Ack. It did nothing against viruses.
Lysine increases calcium absorption, but also, it increases iron absorption. That's why it didn't work for me.

There can be iron deposits almost anywhere, causing pain/inflammation. Shoulders included.
It's coming out of my skin, I believe. There are lesions on my shoulders. nodules.

 

[prioris]

I noticed so far that Lithium Orotate has seemingly minimized my need to take Taurine and Magtein. Usually without Magtein my brain fog would get way much worse. I am currently taking Original Milk of Magnesia (no additives) for my magnesium needs. Lithium has also calmed some of my neuro transmitter havoc. I will continue to experiment and monitor my situation. I take on 120 mg Lithium Orotate tablet. Read Lithium FAQ link above if someone decides to try it. It will likely take me 6 months to a year before I have stronger conclusions about all this stuff. It takes a while to evaluate especially when your juggling it with many issues.

 

[Jigsaw]

I tried lysine over and over. All I got was constipated. Ack. It did nothing against viruses.
Lysine increases calcium absorption, but also, it increases iron absorption. That's why it didn't work for me.

There can be iron deposits almost anywhere, causing pain/inflammation. Shoulders included.
It's coming out of my skin, I believe. There are lesions on my shoulders. nodules.

In my experience, and based on a book I bought way back in the 1980's, lysine is only anti-viral against, specifically, the herpes family of viruses, so glandular fever, cold sores, shingles, chicken pox, genital herpes.

6g lysine plus 50mg zinc gluconate stops herpes viruses dead in their tracks.

On the other side of the coin, arginine can trigger the virus.

Lysine is high in green leafy veg, and fish.

Arginine is high in nuts, and chocolate.

 

[Crux]

6g lysine plus 50mg zinc gluconate stops herpes viruses dead in their tracks.

They never worked for me.. tried over ad infinitum.

Chelating iron has worked perfectly. No more shingles. No more occipital neuralgia.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Chelating iron has worked perfectly. No more shingles. No more occipital neuralgia.

Interestingly even though @picante has extremely low iron and ferritin she has the occipital issue.

Crux did you have high RBC / WBC counts?

Crux, have you described your regime to lower iron somewhere? I must look into it for my husband.

 

[Crux]

Interestingly even though @picante has extremely low iron and ferritin she has the occipital issue.

Crux did you have high RBC / WBC counts?

Crux, have you described your regime to lower iron somewhere? I must look into it for my husband.

With occipital neuralgia and other types of headache, there may not be elevated iron, ferritin, or other blood markers. There can be anemia. Even with iron deficiency anemia, there can be iron deposits in organs.

It's been about 5 yrs. since a blood test, RBC normal, WBC only elevated with an adrenal crisis. Had high to high normal Hct., and HGB., but that can happen with iron overload,though not usually. Iron loaded people can be susceptible to infection.

In reading about brain iron deposition, it's kind of a different animal. Hemochromatosis people usually don't have the brain iron deposition that people with neurodegenerative disorders do, though some do.

I'm happy to share what I'm doing, especially with you.

- Copper glycinate supplementation. It's good for both iron anemia and overload. It mobilizes rather than chelates iron. I'm taking 2mgs. daily. ( I'm not sure that it would be good for starters, because it can raise nitric oxide, often high in migraine.)

- R-lipoic acid chelates iron, along with other metals. I take it separately from the copper and zinc. I take ~ 60-70 mgs. daily, just once. ( chelates brain iron in animal models)

- Green tea, chelates iron. 3-6 cups daily. (Had to add extra iodine because of the fluoride.)

- Quercetin chelates iron. Usually 250mgs daily.

- B12 competes with iron for absorption in the intestines. It's a good inos inhibitor, (inducible nitric oxide), good for migraine. I'm taking 1mg. daily. Used to take as much as 15mg.

- Melatonin is a good inos inhibitor, and , it chelates iron. double good. I take about 1mg. nightly.

- Zinc competes with iron, as well as copper, I take them separately. ~ 15 mg. daily. Zinc may down regulate inos.

I haven't tried any drugs that chelate iron. These supps. seem to work.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'm happy to share what I'm doing, especially with you.

Thank you so much I will start an iron thread so we can talk in more detail

 

[Jigsaw]

They never worked for me.. tried over ad infinitum.

Chelating iron has worked perfectly. No more shingles. No more occipital neuralgia.

What works for one invariably doesn't work for all.

I'm glad you found something that worked for you

Can you explain to me what "chelatimg iron" means, please? I've seen it mentioned a few times, but don't understand what it means. Does it mean getting rid of excess iron via chelation therapy, or something different?


Thanks

 

[Crux]

I hope I haven't offended @prioris with this iron issue as associated with occipital neuralgia.
If so, apologies.

 

[Crux]

Can you explain to me what "chelatimg iron" means, please? I've seen it mentioned a few times, but don't understand what it means. Does it mean getting rid of excess iron via chelation therapy, or something different?

Here's a succinct definition of chelate:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/environment/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/chelate

It means that a bond is formed from a cluster of atoms that surround another atom. Chela means claw.

Here's a description of chelation therapy from Wiki. :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy

 

[Jigsaw]

Here's a succinct definition of chelate:
http://www.encyclopedia.com/environment/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/chelate

It means that a bond is formed from a cluster of atoms that surround another atom. Chela means claw.

Here's a description of chelation therapy from Wiki. :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelation_therapy

Thanks.

So chelatimg iron is the removal of iron via chelation therapy.

I just didn't see the mention of haemochromatosis.

 

[prioris]

I hope I haven't offended @prioris with this iron issue as associated with occipital neuralgia.
If so, apologies.

I have no problem with it. I find it interesting. i am focused on doing liver and gallbladder stone cleanse using phosphoric acid for the next week. i will purge all those stones from my aging body. this is the first one for me. will do many more after that too until no more stones come out.

 

[Crux]

Thank you...relief,

I've done a couple of liver/gallstones cleanses with magnesium and olive oil. The resulting 'stones' looked exactly like gallstones. The color wasn't green like olive oil.

If the liver gets bunged up, then detoxification of most heavy metals via bile is slowed or worse.

I don't know anything about the use of phosphoric acid. Will be interested to read about your experience.