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How similar is autism to ME/CFS?

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,932
@barbc56,
some babies can be born typical (= normal) and developp autism between 15/30 months, it is call regressive autism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_autism


Wouldn't another similarity be that (in a certain subgroup) a vaccine can be the trigger for autism in a previously healthy baby and a vaccine can be the trigger of CFS in a previously healthy teen or adult?

the link between autism and vaccine is still a controversial area, but we know that vaccines can be contaminated by mycoplasma.
The question of this potential risk was discussed one year ago at the Scottish parliament

http://www.ageofautism.com/2016/01/...autism-hypothesis-to-scottish-parliament.html
 

Neunistiva

Senior Member
Messages
442
@barbc56,
some babies can be born typical (= normal) and developp autism between 15/30 months, it is call regressive autism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regressive_autism

the link between autism and vaccine is still a controversial area, but we know that vaccines can be contaminated by mycoplasma.
The question of this potential risk was discussed one year ago at the Scottish parliament

http://www.ageofautism.com/2016/01/...autism-hypothesis-to-scottish-parliament.html


There is really no controversy if you just look at scientific research. The very Wikipedia link you supplied says "Although a rancorous controversy has escalated since the earliest reports of a possible link began to surface in the 1980s, no link has been found with vaccines."

The whole vaccines-autism connection rests on just one paper published in Lancet which was known to be forged but Lancet failed to retract it for 12 years. We of all people should not be swayed by fraudulent paper published in Lancet which they refused to retract and which contradicts all other scientific findings. (A very interesting article about Lancet's unethical conduct in the whole situation: "The Lancet's two days to bury bad news")

I know you are just considering this from the point of view of an adult ME/CFS sufferer but this is not a harmless opinion to spread around as children have already begun dying needlessly because their parents didn't vaccinate them.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,932
@Neunistiva
I do understand that data show no link between vaccine and autism, and that vaccinate children is important,
but I feel concerned about potential mycoplasma contaminations, and I would like that more scientific investigations to be developped in this area.
 

Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
12/ Difficulty changing plans or Need for routine (ME people can need this due to memory issues or to keep within pacing)
13/ Dislike of Travel

Thank you for sharing the information in your post. I have a question about a few things you listed.

I'm wondering why you included "Dislike of Travel" for both Autism and CFS? I know of many people (including myself and my husband) who have CFS and absolutely love to travel. They may not be able to travel due to health conditions, but that doesn't seem the same as having a dislike.

Also wondering about "Difficulty changing plans"...I know this is an issue with Autism, but I'm not sure why it would apply to CFS. Needing to pace or have coping techniques to deal with crappy memory (which I deal with) doesn't seem equivalent to not being able to cope with a change in plans. I forget A LOT, and so I have to rely on multiple redundancies (notes, timers, etc...) but a change in plans doesn't bother me at all.

Just wondering if these two things are applicable to CFS.
 
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Basilico

Florida
Messages
948
The whole vaccines-autism connection rests on just one paper published in Lancet which was known to be forged but Lancet failed to retract it for 12 years. We of all people should not be swayed by fraudulent paper published in Lancet which they refused to retract and which contradicts all other scientific findings. (A very interesting article about Lancet's unethical conduct in the whole situation: "The Lancet's two days to bury bad news")

I'm not an expert in this field, and I certainly don't want to debate about this, but this topic does have a bit more to it that just relying on one paper. I know there are many parents who documented a significant change in their children immediately after receiving a vaccine. As far as I know, the vaccine-autism connection is mostly based on parents' anecdotal reports, which I don't think should be discounted.


I know you are just considering this from the point of view of an adult ME/CFS sufferer but this is not a harmless opinion to spread around as children have already begun dying needlessly because their parents didn't vaccinate them.

Some vaccines may be worth the risk, but I do think that there is a difference between vaccinating against a disease that is life threatening (smallpox, polio) vs. vaccinating against typical childhood diseases (measles). It has been proven that the natural immunity the body develops after encountering a genuine infection lasts a lifetime while antibodies developed from a vaccine are far inferior and must be re-administered every few years because the immunity slowly disappears over time. In light of this, the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine actually seems counterproductive and I can't find a rationale for the risk of those types of vaccines.

The major problem with vaccines is not necessary the vaccine itself, but the tens if not hundreds of unknown ingredients (contaminants, heavy metals, etc...) in the vaccine that are not disclosed. With a vaccine, you never really know exactly what you are injecting into your bloodstream, which is quite terrifying when you think about it.
 

Mij

Messages
2,353
re Vaccines:
https://www.masscfids.org/more-reso...e-2012-fall-lecture-summary?showall=&start=10


Contaminated Immunizations
Dr. Hyde discussed some of the issues around immunizations that have been contaminated and still go to market. For example, during 2004-2005 some batches of the flu vaccine manufactured by Chiron Labs in England became tainted with Serratia Marcescens.

The US and Canada bought vaccines made in England because they were cheaper. Even though the company informed the buyers about this contamination, the US and Canada continued to use the immunizations for 6 more months. Dr. Hyde feels many people probably got ill with ME/CFS after this.

I was heavily vaccinated soon after my initial viral onset for a course I was taking. I was given Hep B vaccines at the school I attended and a few other students got sick too but recovered. I did not, my anti-thyroid antibodies skyrocketed. I should not have been vaccinated so soon after the virus.
 

pattismith

Senior Member
Messages
3,932
Thank you for sharing the information in your post. I have a question about a few things you listed.

I'm wondering why you included "Dislike of Travel" for both Autism and CFS? I know of many people (including myself and my husband) who have CFS and absolutely love to travel. They may not be able to travel due to health conditions, but that doesn't seem the same as having a dislike.

Also wondering about "Difficulty changing plans"...I know this is an issue with Autism, but I'm not sure why it would apply to CFS. Needing to pace or have coping techniques to deal with crappy memory (which I deal with) doesn't seem equivalent to not being able to cope with a change in plans. I forget A LOT, and so I have to rely on multiple redundancies (notes, timers, etc...) but a change in plans doesn't bother me at all.

Just wondering if these two things are applicable to CFS.

I'm not sure if it is acurate to compare symptoms of Autism with CFS.
The similarities may be rather at the metabolic/cellular level than at the clinical picture level....
the central nervous system being impaired in a different and deeper way when the disease occurs in its early growth
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
I'm wondering why you included "Dislike of Travel" for both Autism and CFS? I know of many people (including myself and my husband) who have CFS and absolutely love to travel. They may not be able to travel due to health conditions, but that doesn't seem the same as having a dislike.

Also wondering about "Difficulty changing plans"...I know this is an issue with Autism, but I'm not sure why it would apply to CFS. Needing to pace or have coping techniques to deal with crappy memory (which I deal with) doesn't seem equivalent to not being able to cope with a change in plans. I forget A LOT, and so I have to rely on multiple redundancies (notes, timers, etc...) but a change in plans doesn't bother me at all.

Just wondering if these two things are applicable to CFS.
They don't apply to me, and I suspect that they don't apply to many ME/CFS patients. I enjoy travel if it can be made comfortable and I am an expert at changing plans in order to accommodate how I am feeling on any given day!
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
As someone who has a degree of autism I have no patience for the vaccine-autism BS. It is simply a diversion from helping people with autism. Curiously lack of vaccination slightly increases the rate of autism; if a mother develops rubella such as by by catching it from an unvaccinated individual, thr child is likely to have autism. Even in ordinary high fever during pregnancy increases the chance that the baby will be autistic.
So yes there is a link, and the link is that anti-vaccine attitudes cause more autism.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
They don't apply to me, and I suspect that they don't apply to many ME/CFS patients. I enjoy travel if it can be made comfortable and I am an expert at changing plans in order to accommodate how I am feeling on any given day!

Same for me and I love travel and social events, I just could no longer travel b/c of how ill I was and became much more limited w/social events b/c of my wheelchair and not being able to walk/drive. But the desire to do them never changed, just my physical ability.