• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

How-I-Recovered-From-CFS-part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

tdog333

Senior Member
Messages
171
Diet is a HUGE priority.


Free radicals damage contributes to the etiology of many chronic health problems such as cardiovascular and inflammatory disease, cataract, and cancer. Antioxidants prevent free radical induced tissue damage by preventing the formation of radicals, scavenging them, or by promoting their decomposition. Synthetic antioxidants are recently reported to be dangerous to human health. Thus the search for effective, nontoxic natural compounds with antioxidative activity has been intensified in recent years. In addition to endogenous antioxidant defense systems, consumption of dietary and plant-derived antioxidants appears to be a suitable alternative. Dietary and other components of plants form a major source of antioxidants. The traditional Indian diet, spices, and medicinal plants are rich sources of natural antioxidants; higher intake of foods with functional attributes including high level of antioxidants in antioxidants in functional foods is one strategy that is gaining importance.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249911/

From the study above it shows that food can be a very helpful way of naturally increasing net antioxidants. However; the real problem is due to eating a bad diet.

Most of us have an imbalance of liver Phase I to Phase II detoxification. Most processed food these days are GMO. The last thing someone with any chronic illness needs is to be eating a diet high in GMO's. GMO's inhibit the ability of cytochrome P450 enzymes in the liver. Almost every processed food product you find will have some GMO ingredients in it. Look at this picture from 3 years ago:

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/20111012-gmo-infographic-percentages.jpg

This paper presents an exhaustive review of the toxic effects of the herbicide, glyphosate, the active
ingredient in Roundup®, in humans, and demonstrates how glyphosate’s adverse effects on the gut
microbiota, in conjunction with its established ability to inhibit the activity of cytochrome P450
enzymes, and its likely impairment of sulfate transport, can remarkably explain a great number of the
diseases and conditions that are prevalent in the modern industrialized world.
Its effects are insidious,
because the long-term effects are often not immediately apparent. The pathologies to which glyphosate
could plausibly contribute, through its known biosemiotic effects, include inflammatory bowel disease, Entropy 2013, 15 30 obesity, depression, ADHD, autism, Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, ALS, multiple sclerosis,
cancer, cachexia, infertility, and developmental malformations. Glyphosate works synergistically with
other factors, such as insufficient sun exposure, dietary deficiencies in critical nutrients such as sulfur
and zinc, and synergistic exposure to other xenobiotics whose detoxification is impaired by glyphosate.
Given the known toxic effects of glyphosate reviewed here and the plausibility that they are negatively
impacting health worldwide, it is imperative for more independent research to take place to validate
the ideas presented here, and to take immediate action, if they are verified, to drastically curtail the use
of glyphosate in agriculture. Glyphosate is likely to be pervasive in our food supply, and, contrary to
being essentially nontoxic, it may in fact be the most biologically disruptive chemical in our
environment.

http://www.gmoevidence.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/GlyModern-diseaseSamsel-Seneff-13-1.pdf


Cytochrome P450 enzymes are the most important enzymes in Phase I metabolism in mammals, and are primarily responsible for the metabolism (degradation and elimination) of drugs.
http://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/potm/2006_10/Page1.htm

Here is a great image showing how this can affect us.

liver_detox.gif

http://tuberose.com/Liver_Detoxification.html

GMO's also create dysbiosis by killing off good bacteria.
Several studies have shown that the organisms (mostly bacteria) of the microbiome can take up genes from GMO foods[4],[5]. "Conjugation", or gene transfer, is a common trick used by bacteria to evolve and adapt. This is one mechanism by which antibiotic resistance perpetuates. The consequences of GMO gene transfer to intestinal bacteria involve the expression of the gene and/or insertional mutagenesis. The frequency with which these consequences will occur is not known, but they will occur to some degree at least.

Intestinal bacteria which begin to express the GMO gene will then be producing the same active proteins which define the GMO. For example, intestinal bacteria could start producing the Bacillus thuringiensis (Bt) pesticidal toxin that has been inserted into potatoes, corn, and soybeans. The exact effect of this toxin on humans, if any, is not well established but it has been found in a study of Canadian women, including pregnant women and their fetuses[6].

Insertional mutagenesis refers to the gene inserting itself into another coding gene and, thus, causing a gene mutation by disrupting the code. This may produce more severe results as it is a well known mechanism by which viruses may cause cancer, cell death, or cellular dysfunction.

These same mechanisms, gene transfer and insertional mutagenesis, can affect human cells just the same. While intestinal cells are likely to be the most affected, GMO genes which pass into the blood intact may affect just about any cell and tissue in the body. It is quite possible that GMO foods are regularly resulting in the genetic modification of the humans consuming them! There are many unknowns here and I suspect that there remains a lot to be discovered, but we should not let the absence of evidence be mistaken for the evidence of absent harm. We should, instead, demand more information and more research!
http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/gm...ic-basis-serious-concern-and-immediate-action

The PST (Phenol Sulfur Transferase) Enzyme can be overloaded by toxins and excess phenols quite easily, once this happens we can no longer oxidize sulfur to sulfate.

We can see how important sulfate is here:

Sulphate is required for:

·mucin proteins: Mucin protein production is very important. If there is a deficiency in sulphation there are known links with gut dysfunction and irritable bowel. There must be enough sulphur attached to these proteins otherwise the gut wall will allow peptides through.

·steroids

·bile acids

·phenols

·cholecystokinin: Cholecystokinin (cck-8) protein allows the gut to be linked with the brain structure. This stimulates the secretion of enzymes, gastric acid and gall bladder contraction. It also controls food intake.

·Gastrin must be sulphated to release active pepsin. Pepsin activates secretin release and cholecystokinin, which when sulphated, stimulates the pancreas to release pancreatic enzymes.

·catecholamines

·formation of connective tissue.
http://www.allnaturaladvantage.com.au/Sulphation_diagram.htm

Anyways I could go on and on, I don't want to make this post too long though. I hope you see how important diet can be.

This is great article for more reading:
www.naturalnews.com/039743_processed_foods_eating_reasons.html
 
Last edited:

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
tdog333@ The PST (Phenol Sulfur Transferase) Enzyme can be overloaded by toxins and excess phenols quite easily, once this happens we can no longer oxidize sulfur to sulfate.

We can see how important sulfate is here:

Sulphate is required for:

·mucin proteins: Mucin protein production is very important. If there is a deficiency in sulphation there are known links with gut dysfunction and irritable bowel. There must be enough sulphur attached to these proteins otherwise the gut wall will allow peptides through.

·steroids

·bile acids

·phenols

·cholecystokinin: Cholecystokinin (cck-8) protein allows the gut to be linked with the brain structure. This stimulates the secretion of enzymes, gastric acid and gall bladder contraction. It also controls food intake.

·Gastrin must be sulphated to release active pepsin. Pepsin activates secretin release and cholecystokinin, which when sulphated, stimulates the pancreas to release pancreatic enzymes.

·catecholamines

·formation of connective tissue.
http://www.allnaturaladvantage.com.au/Sulphation_diagram.htm

Anyways I could go on and on, I don't want to make this post too long though. I hope you see how important diet can be.

This is great article for more reading:
www.naturalnews.com/039743_processed_foods_eating_reasons.html


dog333@ The PST (Phenol Sulfur Transferase) Enzyme can be overloaded by toxins and excess phenols quite easily, once this happens we can no longer oxidize sulfur to sulfate.

Hey Dog,

Thanks for pointing out the other contributing factors. Nice work! :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,400
I think the heat @Radio is getting is a bit unwarranted, he is undoubtedly trying to help. Yes, based on the diagnostic criteria of ME/CFS he did not have it (Dysautonomia, PEM, etc..) but obviously had chronic fatigue and an underlying mitochondrial dysfunction. Radio, not trying to discount any of your suffering but for some of us with ME; fatigue, weakness and fluish symptoms are at the bottom of the list of ailments. The severe neurological symptoms and brain dysfunction seem to rain supreme. I think this may be why some feel that this method may not be as effective, as their disease process is different.

However, that being said, Radio is outlining a complete and a holistic approach to chronic illness. I believe that everyone's path into this was different and has different underlying factors. Therefore, everyone has a different path out so his approach may not be the solution for all.
Anyone who has done research into Dr Myhill though will see that Radio follows a very similar system so there is some validity to this approach. Regardless of our individual illness these tactics could help anyone with overall health, disease or not.

I had to chuckle at the comment that Radio has a mental illness; he obviously has extreme passion for sharing his ideals and I for one welcome the information he or anyone shares.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
I'm sure it would, but that wouldn't address the cause. We find the underlying factors, we have a chance of beating this disease.

But Radio has admitted that he doesn't have CFS/ME. He has "drug-induced chronic fatigue." Those are his own words.
 

tdog333

Senior Member
Messages
171
But Radio has admitted that he doesn't have CFS/ME. He has "drug-induced chronic fatigue." Those are his own words.
What does the message Aerose typed have to do with whether or not Radio has CFS? He simply said we need to address the underlying causes.

You will find quite a few people on this forum who have had CFS for many years due to fluoroquinolones and other causes. Do only people who develop fatigue due to a virus have CFS?
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
What does the message Aerose typed have to do with whether or not Radio has CFS? He simply said we need to address the underlying causes.

You will find quite a few people on this forum who have had CFS for many years due to fluoroquinolones. Do only people who develop fatigue due to a virus have CFS?

@tdog333, It was Radio himself who said he had drug-induced chronic fatigue:

I really don't have a problem with using the word remission as I do feel that the CFS monster could come back at anytime. My analogy : Imagine if you were in a car accident, you broke your arm and they put the arm in a cast for 6-8 weeks, another 6 months goes by. You see a friend on the street and they ask you about your broken arm. What would you say? Keep in mind you still have arthritis in your left ankle unrelated to the broken arm.

What would you say if they asked you about your broken arm?

My broken arm is in remission and thanks for asking or My broken arm has healed completely and I have fully recovery from the accident and joined the gym last week. That's how I feel. Keep in mind, my chronic fatigue was drug induced. I do not have any muscle weakness at this time and have regained all my youthful energy. I responded to the lipid replacement therapy very quickly. I am trying to retrace my steps in my recovery / remission to help others. I also want to a apologize if the the word recovery offends other forums members. I guess I am a work in progress. We are now working on building a research team to help post research in a more user-friendly way to help forum members see remission is possible.
.
 

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
CFS_for_19_years@

1. I have been battling the coxsackie-virus for many years possibly related to the cause of my FM.

2. The drug that induced my CFS was nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug called TORADOL®

3. I had many of the diagnostic criteria diagnose by functional medicine practitioner who specialize in CFS.

4. I also had a mouth full of sore related to coxsackievirus.

The drug that induced my CFS some how possibly activated the coxsackievirus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
CFS_for_19_years@

1. I have been battling the coxsackie-virus for many years possibly related to the cause of my FM.

2. The drug that induced my CFS was nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug called TORADOL®

3. I had many of the diagnostic criteria diagnose by functional medicine practitioner who specialize in CFS.

4. I also had a mouth full of sore related to coxsackievirus.

The drug that induced my CFS some how possibly activated the coxsackievirus.

Having many of the diagnostic criteria is not the same. One could say that someone with narcolepsy or Parkinson's disease or Lyme disease would have many of the diagnostic criteria of CFS/ME, but that doesn't mean they have CFS/ME.

Here's the CCC criteria, just to refresh your memory:
http://www.mecfsforums.com/wiki/Canadian_Consensus_Definition

  1. Fatigue: The patient must have a significant degree of new onset, unexplained, persistent, or recurrent physical and mental fatigue that substantially reduces activity level.
  2. PostExertional Malaise and/or Fatigue: There is an inappropriate loss of physical and mental stamina, rapid muscular and cognitive fatigability, post exertional malaise and/or fatigue and/or pain and a tendency for other associated symptoms within the patient’s cluster of symptoms to worsen. There is a pathologically slow recovery period usually 24 hours or longer.
  3. Sleep Dysfunction:* There is unrefreshed sleep or sleep quantity or rhythm disturbances such as reversed or chaotic diurnal sleep rhythms.
  4. Pain:* There is a significant degree of myalgia. Pain can be experienced in the muscles, and/or joints, and is often widespread and migratory in nature. Often there are significant headaches of new type, pattern or severity.
  5. Neurological/Cognitive Manifestations: Two or more of the following difficulties should be present: confusion, impairment of concentration and shortterm memory consolidation, disorientation, difficulty with information processing, categorizing and word retrieval, and perceptual and sensory disturbances – e.g. spatial instability and disorientation and inability to focus vision. Ataxia, muscle weakness and fasciculations are common. There may be overload1 phenomena: cognitive, sensory – e.g. photophobia and hypersensitivity to noise and/or emotional overload, which may lead to “crash”2 periods and/or anxiety.
  6. At Least One Symptom from Two of the Following Categories:
    1. Autonomic Manifestations: orthostatic intolerance neurally mediated hypotension (NMH), postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), delayed postural hypotension; lightheadedness; extreme pallor; nausea and irritable bowel syndrome; urinary frequency and bladder dysfunction; palpitations with or without cardiac arrhythmias; exertional dyspnea.
    2. Neuroendocrine Manifestations: loss of thermostatic stability – subnormal body temperature and marked diurnal fluctuation, sweating episodes, recurrent feelings of feverishness and cold extremities; intolerance of extremes of heat and cold; marked weight change anorexia or abnormal appetite; loss of adaptability and worsening of symptoms with stress.
    3. Immune Manifestations: tender lymph nodes, recurrent sore throat, recurrent flu like symptoms, general malaise, new sensitivities to food, medications and/or chemicals.
  7. The illness persists for at least six months: It usually has a distinct onset, **although it may be gradual. Preliminary diagnosis may be possible earlier. Three months is appropriate for children.
I can copy and paste just as fast as you can, see??? I've got to watch TV now, bye.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,400
@CFS_for_19_years

I can't even begin to imagine the trials you have been through after having this disease for 19 years + I'm sure in that time you have seen lots of different theories come and go and be proven only to be disproven. I've only had this a short time and I already understand the let down of hoping you have found a possible answer only to find it fleeting.

I think that whether or not Radio had real ME doesn't matter too much- he simply found his way out of his situation. For some of us it may not be the same route or may not even be fully possible but it can't hurt to look at all avenues. Maybe there is someone else on here who can improve 20% from Radios protocol, and if that's the case I would say his posting of information has been benefitial.

Personally I don't care if someone got CFS or ME from shooting too much heroin- if they found a way out I'm interested to hear if I can learn from it.

I actually had to laugh a bit because I have every single symptom you listed under the CCC criteria- and many more. If someone tells me they didn't have major, major brain dysfunction or dysautonomia or PEM then I personally don't even CONSIDER them to have ME, but Radios postings are still informative and I will accept his offerings. Hopefully it can help me some day down the road.
 
Last edited:

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,400
This would work until you collapse from comorbid conditions. This is essentially what I did when I first got ill, ADHD meds, caffeine, and various other stimulants.

I actually had a doctor TELL me to take Ritalin and caffeine because "there's no cure for CFS so we have to just treat symptoms" Yah, moved on from that doc quickly
 

kyzcreig

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
Houston
I actually had a doctor TELL me to take Ritalin and caffeine because "there's no cure for CFS so we have to just treat symptoms" Yah, moved on from that doc quickly
I bet. My favorite is when they tell you it's in your head. Small minds dismiss what they don't understand.
 
Messages
10,157
Please note:

I have edited some of the posts on this thread due to rule breaches -- personal attacks and posting off-topic comments. Please review our rules if you have noticed that your post has been edited. If you would like to discuss any edits, you can contact me via Conversation.

Please avoid personal attacks and stick to constructive discourse.

This thread will remain closed for a few days.


Thank you.

Kina (Moderation Team Lead)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.