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HIV-Negative AIDS? (Sign a Petition)

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golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
c
Valentijn said:
Massive amounts of reputable evidence showing that HIV causes AIDS.

And a lack of reputable evidence showing otherwise.
Click to expand...


Can you show me the placebo controlled scientific tests that show HIV is the direct cause of AIDS.

I have been looking for it - and cant find it.
 
G

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Valentijn said:
The man being interviewed is not a medical doctor, and makes a living testifying at the trials of HIV-denialists being prosecuted for killing their children.

And Mercola says that people diagnosed with HIV are inadvertently offing themselves due to psychological stress caused by their diagnosis. I bet he'd just love the psych theories of ME/CFS.

Go for it.
Click to expand...

I was going to get the test. But then if I ever did get pregnant, an unwanted situation would arise where the state would attempt to force drugs into my baby. Life threatening drugs.
 
G

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Thanks. Will have a look in a moment...

Just been wading through http://www.naturalnews.com/HIV.html


It seems to me we would require:

1) strict definitions on AIDS criteria in each country - as it seems to differ considerably
2) Scrutiny of just how accurate is the HIV test results
3) I believe the test is for antibodies of HIV and not actual HIV virus?
4) I forget the rest for now! :)
 
G

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Will have a proper look at this link:

http://www.virusmyth.com/aids/whistleblowers.htm

when I have rested.

I think animal experiments are utter nonsense, but I think the point would be, for those that use them, that no animal ever infected with HIV has developed AIDS.

The cell cultures being used and killed by HIV was interesting. However I note that broccoli cells kill cancer in labs and 'they' say this does not mean anything.

This is a lot of effort to see if I want to sign a petition! :)
 
G

golden

Senior Member
Messages
1,831
Just popped back to say I think some animals have developed AIDS... will look again in fact as still not sure.


The Tests are accurate .... they are not accurate
HIV causes Aids ... HIV does not cause AIDS
There is scientific proof....no there is not...

Its a pickle.

I havent reached any conclusion, I expect I wont for a long time.
 
Seven7

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
I thought a hallmark of AIDS was a low CD4 which by the way I have high. Another thing that bothers me is can this non hiv cases post their inmune profile? I want to see what is the difference or that there isn't one. Because as I understand it even in the CFS Pot we have very similar distinguishable profiles which is different than the HIV one. We can even distinguish the Golf war ones which are the most similar one to CFS.
 
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
golden said:
c


Can you show me the placebo controlled scientific tests that show HIV is the direct cause of AIDS.

I have been looking for it - and cant find it.
Click to expand...

Placebo controlled does not make sense in this instance. The mechanism by which HIV destroys T cells has been described, though I don't know how validated it is since I do not investigate HIV. It is not a suprise that other disorders can present as AIDS-like. Any disorder that severely suppresses T cells, B cells or NK cells will look somewhat like HIV AIDS. Indeed, it has been claimed that some CFS patients get Karposis Sarcoma, which is typically associated with AIDS, but this is a reflection of immune dysfunction. Not all immune dysfunctions have the same cause.

Any researcher pursuing this line of thinking (non-HIV AIDS) can do studies showing other causes of AIDS-like syndromes if they want. I do not recall ever seeing something comparable. They could if they wanted to, though funding might be an issue.

However we cannot find the cause of ME or CFS, and ME outbreaks probably have an unidentified pathogen at the core, though my guess is currently enteroviruses. So there may indeed be other pathogens that cause AIDS-like syndromes. Even if thats true, it does not dispute that HIV can cause AIDS. Further, the fact that a few long term untreated patients with HIV do not get AIDS does not disprove the HIV AIDS theory. Some of these have a natural genetic resistance, and there may be other reasons. Is it not the case that bone marrow transfer to HIV patients from patients with a mutation in the receptor HIV uses to enter the cell have been shown to be HIV free, or massively reduced loads? I do not really recall this research, but if it does show this that is close to proof that HIV causes AIDS. Does anyone recall this research?

The arguments for non-HIV AIDS appear to be thin. To be taken seriously it needs some definitive research, just as we are having trouble getting ME generally recognized because we lack definitive biomarkers.

Arguing instead that some with ME or CFS have severe immune disorders is an entirely different issue. There is no doubt that this happens.
 
patient.journey

patient.journey

Senior Member
Messages
443
Cases of non HIV AIDS should be studied more but am not sure why government and physicians doesn't usually look at it well !!

In China last research showed that 30.77% of patients had antibody to interferon gamma that allows the human body to fight infection and 32.69 % percent had low CD4 and high number of positive PPD test for TB , that means one of two:

First two different pathogen giving those symptoms
Second same pathogen worked different in two criteria maybe due genetics reasons

And in this study they were talking about patients from different countries even from Europe and USA :)
 
S

Sinclair

Senior Member
Messages
129
I have both low CD4 and low NK.
I was dx of ME/CFS this year.

Mi viral trigger took place in 2010 and then I had a gradual onset. Symptoms became evident and hard to handle by the end of 2013.

Is ME/CFS a misdiagnosis with such markers?
 
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