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High Dose Selenium Significantly Improves My Fatigue and Brain Fog

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by Hip, Jan 5, 2014.

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Does selenium 400 mcg daily help your CFS? Have an active enterovirus infection, tested at ARUP Lab?

  1. Selenium HELPED. My ARUP Lab tests showed I HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    6.7%
  2. Selenium HELPED. My ARUP Lab tests showed I DO NOT HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    20.0%
  3. Selenium DID NOT HELP. My ARUP Lab tests showed I HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Selenium DID NOT HELP. My ARUP Lab tests showed I DO NOT HAVE an active enterovirus infection

    6.7%
  5. Selenium MADE ME FEEL WORSE (or made me feel too mentally "wired" and over-stimulated)

    13.3%
  6. Selenium HELPED. I have not been tested for enterovirus at ARUP Lab

    40.0%
  7. Selenium DID NOT HELP. I have not been tested for enterovirus at ARUP Lab

    13.3%
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    With all due respect @Hip but how can you specifically relate knackers323's comment of:

    "I am noticing a pretty big improvement a few hours after taking big doses of selenium. 700mcg."

    Uniquely to dopaminergic boost?
     
  2. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    What I said was that knackers323's experience of an immediate benefit from selenium will be something along the lines of the dopaminergic boost that @Tunguska posted above; ie, it doesn't have to be specifically dopamine.

    Obviously if you feel benefits in a matter of hours, this is far too short a time to be due to an antiviral effect. Myself I notice benefits only after 10 days on selenium, so in my case, an antiviral mechanism could well explain these benefits. But if you notice benefits in a matter of hours of taking selenium, then this is more likely to be due to physiological mechanism that can respond very quickly, such a neurotransmitter levels, hormone levels, or inflammatory responses.
     
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    I understand what your saying, you did only state the dopaminergic effect in your comment though, based on knackers323's rather limited description

    Do you have any thing to reference in regards to Se "boosting" dopaminergic effects within a few hours?

    I really would like to read anything in relation to that, as I have found multiple nutrients taking at least two weeks to have any effect in that regard. Thanks
     
  4. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    The study posted by Tunguska above is the one that started the talk of dopamine. Not sure of the exact times scale of the increased dopamine overflow elicited by the selenium injection, but I would think it was fast. But I would not assume that a dopaminergic boost was necessarily the explanation.

    The other thing that needs an explanation is the fact that lots of people on found selenium overstimulating, and had to discontinue use because of this.
     
  5. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    It also seems to be helping my skin
     
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    Oh. I have always been dubious when Rats are used as the test subject, as I do not believe the results always have a direct correlation with Humans. I find it interesting that knackers323 also states "improved skin effects" as increasing GSH levels can effect the skin - GSH is used via injection across Asia as a "skin whitening agent"

    Like I previously commented, Se can increase GSH levels and or function
     
  7. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Sorry I wish I had access to the full article.

    Personally I found higher dose selenium (400-600mcg/day) to have a slight effect on brain fog the same day. I think closest to what NAC did for me (which works in tandem with Se, and also some links to dopamine). From other experiments it's become clear my dopamine doesn't work right so, being unable to identify the real cause - I assume it's a symptom, I'll take anything elemental that compensates or contributes directly or indirectly. I wouldn't describe its effect alone as particularly "dopaminergic" compared to others though.
     
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    @Tunguska

    Tyrosine + Phenylaline + Velvet bean extract + P5P on empty stomach = wicked increase in Dopamine, for me anyway. Felt it within a week
     
    presently_distant and Tunguska like this.
  9. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

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    Thanks, I've more or less already tried that though, minus the velvet bean extract (I had to look that up; it's an L-dopa source, right?). Tyrosine was great (and felt a bit different from the selenium and NAC here) but lost effect after a week. I still take it but with food. Trying to figure out uridine which had a stronger effect.
     
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    Yes, Velvet bean extract contains L-Dopa - which is what they give to Parkinson's Disease patients. In combination on an empty stomach, have found more effective then anything else I have ever tried for dopamine. A friend of mine gave me this protocol, it has worked really well for him also
     
    Tunguska likes this.
  11. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    Se raising my glut levels may be there reason for the effects but I have taken liposomal glutathione before and didn't get the same effects.
     
  12. adreno

    adreno PR activist

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    Do you guys feel any difference between different forms of Se? For example, selenocysteine might increase glutathione levels more than selenomethionine.
     
  13. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Hi Undcvr ,

    This is very interesting and valuable information. See your highlighted statement above. If the Selenium is so tightly bound to the Amino Acid Methionine for example, and is then absorbed and utilized as a protein in the body, then this supplement is an excellent vehicle to transport relatively high concentrations of Selenium into cells that we would like to kill [ Cancer Cells] or into cells that are infected with viruses. For example, the Coxsackie virus has been found in a very high percentage of CFIDS sufferers who happen to have Fibromyalgia. The virus is found many times in muscle tissue which may be causing the tissue pain of Fibromyalgia. This means that possibly through taking Selenomethionine , and doing muscular exercise, we can transport the ingested Selenium to those cells and kill off the virus assuming correct dosages are applied.

    Another Topic: Somebody asked about Selenium Supplement brands. Wow, quality of the supplement in various brands really varies. I tried the GNC brand Selenium and it had zero effect on my body nomatter how it was taken. When I took the "Good N Natural " Selenium Yeast extract supplement at the same dosage of the GNC brand, 200 mcg, there was no comparison at all. This Selenium could be felt improving skin color, improving hair and improving my resistance to infection, and boosting energy levels to new highs. I tried 400 mcg daily for months and felt that its antiviral properties are strongly apparent at these levels just as HIP said.

    Abdulrahman

    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2014
    Sancar likes this.
  14. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Selenium yeast is produced by fermenting Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker's/brewer's yeast) in a selenium rich substrate. This creates a yeast high in selenium that can be used as a selenium supplement.

    However, the yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae just on its own has potent immunomodulatory effects, and I suspect this may be the reason you found "Good N Natural" Selenium Yeast extract improved your resistance to infection and boosted your energy levels.
    If so, if you got benefits from selenium yeast, you might consider trying the supplement Epicor, which is pure Saccharomyces cerevisiae.


    However, I have problems with Epicor and other Saccharomyces cerevisiae products, presumably because the immune responses this yeast induces are too strong. I find both Epicor and selenium yeast supplements dramatically increase my depression levels. I am guessing this may be because it increases interferon secretions, and interferon is known to significantly ramp up depression. I find many Th1/Th2 immunomodulator supplements cause me to get increased depression.

    So for anyone like me who is sensitive Saccharomyces cerevisiae, I would suggest using the yeast-free selenomethionine, not the yeast-derived selenomethionine.
     
    Abha and end like this.
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    Differant mechanism of action, one may not be compareable to the other
     
  16. Abdulrahman

    Abdulrahman

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    Hi Hip,

    Since you are very interested in the study of minerals in human Biochemistry, i have another explanation for the anti-viral effect of Selenium in muscle tissue such as heart tissue, or in Organ tissue such as Liver and Kidneys. All of these organs have a very high tissue concentration of Selenium in the healthy human being as compared to normal tissue concentrations. The microbiologists have linked the anti-viral behavior of this Selenium by theorizing that the Glutathione Peroxidase is responsible for damaging the virus as it attacks the heart muscle tissue. The first evidence for the role of Selenium in human biofiunction was the discovery that Keshan disease, a viral infection of heart tissue, was caused by extra low levels or depleted levels of Selenium in human heart tissues at Keshan province in the 1970's in China. The deeper root cause was that the Keshan Province soil and water was highly depleted in Selenium. The lack of Selenium in diet caused many residents to have viral infections of the heart tissues leading to death.

    My view is the following: For all of these highly critical organs the human body must protect its crown jewels, the organs by every possible method from attacks of Bacteria and Viruses of all types throughout the human lifetime. To be able to resist these microorganisms, these specific organ tissues cells purposely seek out and incorporate from the bloodstream higher amounts of Selenium which is normally circulating in the blood.

    The higher tissue cell concentration of Selenium then acts as a Shield that is both anti-viral and anti-bacterial as the viruses for example cannot survive living in such cells with SE, since this mineral is a Poison to the viral biofunctions. For the same reason you will find another very critical mineral Copper CU being utilized and incorporated at very high concentration in the Organ tissues as Copper is another mineral poisonous to Bacteria and Viruses. This is a second part of the Mineral Defense Shield that is incorporated into the cellular structure. These two minerals concentration in humans vary depending upon how much was ingested from human nutrition as they are both rare minerals. This means that in the majority of foods, a trace amount is found. To this day their full role has still not been adequately understood for their highly critical functions.

    All of these minerals are best utilized in their organic form as this maximizes their absorption into tissue. For example, the organic copper is very healthy to human tissue while the mineral copper when ingested from say copper piping is a pollutant to the body and unhealthy. The human body does not want minerals in the mineral form; it needs minerals incorporated into an Organic structure to be properly absorbed as you know. Taking them in their Organic form means taking them from plants which have already converted them from mineral form in the soil, into an organic structure in the leaves, root, or seeds [Brazil nut is a seed]. Another source is to obtain such minerals from Animal sources such as the Liver which acts as a storage in the Animal body for Copper and some other minerals.

    Abdulrahman
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2014
  17. knackers323

    knackers323 Senior Member

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    @Jonathan Edwards do you have any thoughts on why selenium may be helping us?

    It seems like it could be for many reasons. What testing would you suggest to find out why it is helping?

    Thanks
     
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    Thank you @Abdulrahman

    So much better to do your OWN research and learn through practical experience like your post seems to relay

    Of note taking 400mcg Se per day as @Hip recommended, has boosted my mental sharpness and overall fatigue which was notable around the 7 day mark. In all honesty I wasn't expecting much however I am now pleasantly surprised
     
  19. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    That's interesting, @end. I think you are the first person on this thread that experienced the same sort of benefits as I did with selenium. Most people here reported that selenium unfortunately caused them too much mental stimulation, such that they could not continue taking it.


    What I notice is that if I stop taking selenium, quite quickly, after around 3 or 4 days, I will start to feel worse again. I have tried stopping on many occasions, and I always this this same result of feeling worse after around 3 or 4 days.
     
  20. atime

    atime

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    My experiments with selenium in the past led me too feel too dampened psychologically. Hard to describe but I guess you could say it induces a brain fog and reduces my pleasure. I did it for things along the lines of brain antioxidant in particular I think it protects against amphetamine induced toxicity. Not that I was taking amphetamines, only coffee. Though I thought it would be a good idea.
     

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