High dose folate, B2 and elevation of ammonia and uric acid (for dummies)

[Gondwanaland]

In the past few days I have been trying 100mcg MB12 + 15mcg (yes fifteen) Mfolate and noticed "solid tears" in the inner corners of my eyes about 1/2 hour later

 

[ebethc]

I don't make any suggestion in that area since I am a dummy on that but transdermal bicarb (plus oral magnesium oxide) reversed all my issues with salicylate intolerance, high acid uric and ammonia build up.

Does it have to be Mg OXIDE - or can it be other forms of Mg? (eg aspartate) oxide gives me the runs

 

[Gondwanaland]

Does it have to be Mg OXIDE - or can it be other forms of Mg? (eg aspartate) oxide gives me the runs

I found that glycinate, aspartate, citrate and sulfate always increased ammonia, or serotonin, which apparently have the same effect in suceptible individuals...
Beth, please be careful, other people who tried this alkalizing protocol had candida flares. If you have candida issues it might be a risk.

 

[ebethc]

I found that glycinate, aspartate, citrate and sulfate always increased ammonia, or serotonin, which apparently have the same effect in suceptible individuals...
Beth, please be careful, other people who tried this alkalizing protocol had candida flares. If you have candida issues it might be a risk.

I'm not sure that I follow.... If I try to get rid of ammonia via alkalizing diet, I will get a candida flare? I'm probably missing something

 

[Gondwanaland]

I'm not sure that I follow.... If I try to get rid of ammonia via alkalizing diet, I will get a candida flare? I'm probably missing something

You understood that corrrectly. Candida loves an alkaline environment
I did not have candida issues though, an it resolved my ammonia/serotonin/ONOO issues

 

[ebethc]

You understood that corrrectly. Candida loves an alkaline environment
I did not have candida issues though, an it resolved my ammonia/serotonin/ONOO issues

I always thought it was the other way around... candida loves acidity....

You understood that corrrectly. Candida loves an alkaline environment
I did not have candida issues though, an it resolved my ammonia/serotonin/ONOO issues

So, will taking betaine w meals help candida? I have some of this: http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Research-Betaine-Pepsin-675ct/dp/B0012S64UE
Is stomach/intestinal acidity the same as pH in the rest of your body?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I always thought it was the other way around... candida loves acidity....

Perhaps the jury is still out on this one? I don't know, I don't have knowledge about candida...

So, will taking betaine w meals help candida?
Is stomach/intestinal acidity the same as pH in the rest of your body?

Never take the alkalizing stuff with meals. If your stomach pH is acidic enough you don't need betaine, just take the magnesium 2-3 hours after food or 1 hour before.
Stomach acidity is different from intestinal acidity, and the metabolic acidosis that generates ammonia (to buffer the acidity) is another thing altogether.
Perhaps this is a good reading

Renal ammonia metabolism is the predominant component of net acid excretion and new bicarbonate generation. Renal ammonia metabolism is regulated by acid-base balance. Both acute and chronic acid loads enhance ammonia production in the proximal tubule and secretion into the urine. In contrast, alkalosis reduces ammoniagenesis. Hypokalemia is a common electrolyte disorder that significantly increases renal ammonia production and excretion, despite causing metabolic alkalosis. Although the net effects of hypokalemia are similar to metabolic acidosis, molecular mechanisms of renal ammonia production and transport have not been well understood. This mini review summarizes recent findings regarding renal ammonia metabolism in response to chronic hypokalemia.

 

[ebethc]

Never take the alkalizing stuff with meals. If your stomach pH is acidic enough you don't need betaine, just take the magnesium 2-3 hours after food or 1 hour before.

Opposite... betaine HCL = hydrochloric acid

Stomach acidity is different from intestinal acidity, and the metabolic acidosis that generates ammonia (to buffer the acidity) is another thing altogether.

this is one of those moments where I feel screwed and I'm going to be sick forever..... I have high ammonia and don't know how to get rid of it - does being a gluten-free vegan solve this problem?? Yucca did nothing. Also, I was reading about lectins last night and came to the conclusion that I should cut out nuts & seeds, too!

I have LOW stomach acid, but betaine hcl is bad for ammonia..unless I'm misunderstanding, which is entirely possible because I don't feel well today..

I just started taking whey a couple of days ago, which will probably turn out to be a bust (not sure that's why I feel lousy today; I have been feeling poorly before the whey)

 

[Gondwanaland]

Opposite... betaine HCL = hydrochloric acid

I know, I am saying that if you are going to take magnesium, take it apart from meals.

Why don't you try a sodium bicarbonate foot bath before bed (1 Tbsp)? Do you have severe candida issues?

I found digestive enzymes helpful, but must be started low and build up tolerance.

 

[ebethc]

I know, I am saying that if you are going to take magnesium, take it apart from meals.

Why don't you try a sodium bicarbonate foot bath before bed (1 Tbsp)? Do you have severe candida issues?

I found digestive enzymes helpful, but must be started low and build up tolerance.

I believe that I may have candida issues... I feel better when i eat low carb.. I don't have a big sweet tooth, but I def like carbs.. That's not necessarily candida; I have always had cortisol issues, and glucose-cortisol are def linked somehow... I think my root problem is weak adrenals, but gut is tied to so many issues that it's a little hard to "root cause" my problems (like many ppl on PR)

Is a foot bath somehow better than a regular (whole body) bath? I like to put sodium bicarbonate in my bath...

Digestive enzymes did not work for me... seemed like they should have! it's a mystery...

thanks.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I like to put sodium bicarbonate in my bath...

Do you usually do this? I suggested a foot bath for tolerance reasons. To get used to it slowly.

I think my root problem is weak adrenals

Do you have thyroid issues? Have you ever taken T3 replacement?

Digestive enzymes did not work for me... seemed like they should have! it's a mystery...

Which enzymes did you take? What happened? I had to build up tolerance to them.

I was reading about lectins last night and came to the conclusion that I should cut out nuts & seeds, too!

You can take a break and reintroduce them slowly back. I do fine with chia, sunflower and pumpkin seeds, cashews and Brazil nuts now after a break. Flax and sesame are out. Almonds only on occasion.

My diet is actually a bit far from the preconized auto-immune protocol, but I do eat very "clean", organic whenever possible, never eat processed foods etc. I think the lowcarb diet is good for a while only, because your gut (and glands) needs the carbs.

http://www.larabriden.com/gentle-carbs-for-gaba-cortisol-and-adrenal-health/
http://robbwolf.com/2014/02/20/females-carbohydrates-hormones/
http://chriskresser.com/are-you-lower-carb-than-you-think
http://chriskresser.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-ruining-your-health
http://chriskresser.com/7-things-everyone-should-know-about-low-carb-diets

 

[ebethc]

Do you have thyroid issues? Have you ever taken T3 replacement?

yep - I take T4 & T3.

Which enzymes did you take? What happened? I had to build up tolerance to them.

Nothing happened when I took these... recommended by my doctor
http://www.amazon.com/Transformation-Enzyme-Digest-120-caps/dp/B005QS07OU/ref=sr_1_1

My diet is actually a bit far from the preconized auto-immune protocol, but I do to eat very "clean", organic whenever possible, never eat processed foods etc. I think the lowcarb diet is good for a while, because your gut (and glands) needs the carbs.

http://www.larabriden.com/gentle-carbs-for-gaba-cortisol-and-adrenal-health/
http://robbwolf.com/2014/02/20/females-carbohydrates-hormones/
http://chriskresser.com/are-you-lower-carb-than-you-think
http://chriskresser.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-ruining-your-health
http://chriskresser.com/7-things-everyone-should-know-about-low-carb-diets

thanks... I think at least 50 g / day of carbs is good.. Less than that makes it hard to function. I have to do something radical, I just can't figure it out..My stomach is constantly bloated, and i'm so sensitive to high humidity, constant brain fog (which can be caused by so many things..). Someone on this forum said that the only thing that helped them tolerate the humidity was cutting out dairy... Personally, that's the hardest for me, but I have to do it

 

[Gondwanaland]

thanks... I think at least 50 g / day of carbs is good.. Less than that makes it hard to function. I have to do something radical, I just can't figure it out..

What supplements are you taking right now? Is your major issue ammonia at this moment?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Someone on this forum said that the only thing that helped them tolerate the humidity was cutting out dairy... Personally, that's the hardest for me, but I have to do it

I was dairy free for several months, but now I am consuming it again for the lysine content. But I don't drink milk. I try to get my dairy from A2 casein whenever possible. I get bloated from eating yogurt. I saw a new enzyme on iHerb "Dairy-zymes", if I ever import supplements again, I will order this one.

I am also taking whey, also for the lysine, and getting even more bloated...

 

[ebethc]

What supplements are you taking right now? Is your major issue ammonia at this moment?

My major issues are symptoms (brain fog, fatigue, joint pain, bloated/uncomfortable stomach)... I can only speculate re the causes... Due to SNPs, I believe that I have an ammonia problem.. Also, I think that I smell like ammonia sometimes, which is disgusting, but I think that I'm the only person who notices

supps: 5-MTHF; MB12; P5P; Vit D; Vit C; Omegas; Thorne SF 722; others, off & on, like magnesium/calcium & zinc, astanxthin
meds: T4/T3

 

[Gondwanaland]

Have you already tried bicarb baths?

 

[ebethc]

Have you already tried bicarb baths?

yes - I like them! I really put a lot of bicarb in the bath, and salts, too. Are those detoxifying for Ammonia?

I started using Whey this week as a protein source, but I was putting it in smoothies w fresh almond milk (just almonds, sea salt, water and vanilla). I've had almond milk before and been fine... is it common for whey to upset your stomach? I ate pizza and had a beer on Wed night, which is not good for me.. haven't had a beer in years.. but that was a few days ago. also, ate a lot of cheese this week, and it's very humid..

 

[ebethc]

Have you already tried bicarb baths?

also - I read that whey only has trace amounts of casein... I don't know if I'm sensitive to casein but if that's the prob then I don't think that whey is the culprit.. BUT whey could cause stomach problems for other reasons, and that's what I'm curious about..do you know anything about whey?

thanks

 

[MeSci]

Just a few comments that I hope are helpful.

You can get vegan pizza, but whether you can get vegan gluten-free pizza I don't know. Avoiding gluten helps a lot of us.

The amount of stomach acid you need may depend on how much meat or protein you eat. I don't have any authoritative links for this, but it makes sense to me, as stomach acid is needed partly to denature protein. I think it also breaks down solid pieces like meat.

As a vegan, therefore, I don't think I need as much stomach acid as someone who eats a lot of meat and/or protein. I may be wrong, but alkalisation with bicarb seems to work well for me.

pH varies quite a lot across the digestive tract, and throughout the body. There are very complex reactions going on that change the pH in different places.

Different people also have significant differences in what they can tolerate, what helps and harms them, etc., so I think there will be a lot of trial and error for all of us for the foreseeable future, unfortunately.

We do need some carbs, and very-low carb is probably a bad idea, but so is the typical modern high-carb diet. There are some good threads on this, with links to recent scientific papers.

 

[Gondwanaland]

do you know anything about whey?

It contains a ton of aminoacids that upon digestion will increase ammonia if you are inside that vicious circle.
Freddd warns against whey I think because it can raise glutathione too quickly, depleting MB12/folate.

Since you have so many +/+CBS, this can make ammonia worse and I think you would benefit from reading this thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...h-preventing-methylfolate-side-effects.34025/

I can try to list for you what helped me when I was in the ammonia hole last year:

• I stopped all supplements and took only magnesium oxide to bowel tolerance for 5-6 weeks
• sodium bicarbonate baths - I read that candida likes alkaline and viruses like acidic environments, since EBV seems to be an issue, the baths could be beneficial for you. Always start low and build up tolerance. I would say to start with 1/2 or 1 Tbsp for foot bath and 2 Tbsp for a bath. Also using bicarb as a shower scrub is a way of getting used to it.
• Saccharomyces boulardii once capsule before bed every other day for a few days and then alternate it with a probiotic that works for you. Avoid Lactobacillus acidophilus since they increase acidity too much.

I should have stopped the magnesium one week earlier because I had low calcium symptoms (insomnia coming back and night sweats). Then I fixed it by taking 10,000 IU vitamin A for 5 weeks, and insomnia hasn't been a constant issue anymore, except for when my T3 dose was too low, and lowering my SSRI dose which messes up the +/+MAO-A which you also have.

I think this chart is the one that better explains how the methylation supplements will overdrive the serotonin production and urea cycle, which need their own co-factors for degradation and excretion that can be quickly depleted. Serotonin degradation is impaired for us +/+MAO-Aers (poor BH4 recycling). I see that you are not taking a B complex, which can be impairing the MB12 and folate performance. But perhaps it is useless adding it now when you already have too much ammonia.

Mb12 and folate will increase acidity because from MB12 there will be more ammonia generation and from folate more uric acid. The kidneys will need extra buffering electrolytes like magnesium and sodium bicarb.

So "my protocol" relies on very basic biochem principles, but unfortunately hasn't helped everyone who tried it. The response will vary according to your gut health. But I still think it is a solid way for getting rid of ammonia and uric acid. Actually there will be many other things that can help a person who doesn't have an uric acid problem.

@ebethc what are your uric acid levels?