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High ammonia - with gut dysbiosis

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by renski, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Interesting I was just reading about MAO A R297R, how disrupting your circadian rhythm can cause issues, which makes sense to me, I have been going to bed late for the past month (insomnia) and taking sleeping tablets at 1-2am in the morning and feeling very anxious the following day. But the last few days I've been going to bed earlier with sleeping tablets and do feel calmer. I'm also very low in B2 according to the organic acids test, I might try B2 again, since this seems to be important for MAO A R297R.
     
  2. AkeBono

    AkeBono

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    @renski "From my doctor on LOLA": he might be right.

    i have never took it together with ornithine but read on alternative forums good reviews for LOLA supp removing ammonia. but good point - its never black and white with supplements and treatments.
    You could be right about your liver being clogged after antimicrobials an get constipated.

    During my journey there were many "causes" for being constipated while having gut issues >> low thyroid, low bile flow/clogged liver, low serotonine due to distroyed gut lining, lack of good biota, ...you can have your own constellation.Some guys reported being constipated from histamine, some from oxalates in supplements?, from high level of clostridia (due to high ph because candida) which is lowering colon motility, etc.

    I wish it could be simpler for you to identify the root cause.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2016
  3. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Been to see a new doctor near where I live in Sydney, she seems to understand more about how to treat the gut problems, I won't post everything just yet (will keep a journal for others), but the basic idea for now is to clear out the gut:
    - Alkalize the body with magnesium carbonate/citric acid/ bicarbonate soda, potassium bicarbonate
    - Add in grapefruit seed extract, cranberry extract (these are specific for the bad bacteria I have)
    - Magnesium oxide/carbonate for colon flush and constipation from killing off bacteria
    - Biokult Procyan (again she said this is specific to some of the bad bacteria I have), apparently acidophilus is very beneficial for this (regardless of the D-lactate stuff people talk about)
    - Up vegetable intake and do juicing (vegetables/fruit for alkalizing - but don't overdo the fruit)
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2016
    Rlman likes this.
  4. dannybex

    dannybex Senior Member

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    I'm not a doctor, but I would think alkalizing your gut might just make ammonia problems worse. Bacteria and fungi like candida produce ammonia for the sole purpose of increasing the ph of their environment so they can grow and survive and spread.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21586647

    "We report here that C. albicans can actively alter the pH of its environment and induce its switch to the hyphal form. The change in pH is caused by the release of ammonia from the cells produced during the breakdown of amino acids."

    Having said that, flushing in some manner may be helpful, but maybe in a way that is proven to lower ammonia, like butyrate supplements or butyrate-producing pre-or-probiotics? Just a guess as I'm trying to lower my ammonia levels as well. Also lowering protein intake.

    Also, while this study may not be pertinent, it looks like magnesium might make a candida infection worse:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6432954

    ???

    Edit: Sorry -- just saw that some of these things were already mentioned.
     
    AkeBono likes this.
  5. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    I'm just going with what the doctor says, alkalizing is about reducing overall acidosis in the body that strep and other stuff is creating. I'm not focusing on ammonia anymore. The first stage is to clear out the bad bacteria and get the acidosis down. Based on some of the tests I likely don't have candida anymore, but again you can't keep focusing on little things like magnesium feeding candida, I need to flush out the colon and actually get some stuff cleared out.
     
  6. ebethc

    ebethc Senior Member

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    Hi @Misfit Toy - which type of butyrate do you recommend? sodium butyrate vs calcium/mag butyrate... thx
     
  7. AkeBono

    AkeBono

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    @renski
    I was wondering if youve made any progress since last message.
     
  8. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Hi @AkeBono, still struggling with most symptoms, anxiety/depression has probably improved a little bit. I had another CSA done, which I think shows I have more strep now. Waiting to see my doctor to see where to go from here, since we were treating it based on the CSA from September. I'm doing raw juices (not blending) a few times a day, which is making me feel really tired so I'm hoping that will improve. I'm basically only taking the alkalizer powder, juices, and grapefruit seed extract. The probiotics make me feel really ordinary and don't seem to tolerate any lactobacillus strains.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
  9. AkeBono

    AkeBono

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    Good luck Renski!
    Hoe about taking other probiotics besides lactobacillus?
    For Strep is ive read Bile is somehow toxic to it,
    vitamin C also and of course some microbials.
    Some said also xylitol can help but Im wondering...

    Also food for thought - too much alkalizing could increase number of Clostridia.
    Strep and Clostridia use sugars in any form,
    ferment starches and use sulphur as a substrate.
    I also cant tolerate veggie juices.
     
    renski likes this.
  10. hvac14400

    hvac14400 fatty & acid : )

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    what ammonia blood level in CFS considered high, anyone?
     
  11. MAF14

    MAF14 Senior Member

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    For MAO you can try the FMN version of B2.. Very highly recommended by a poster named "ahmo" who claims it helped with her MAO/ammonia issues.

    I just started taking Source Naturals FMN today so too soon to see if it's helping me.
     
  12. paul_k

    paul_k

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    Have you looked into your intolerance of the antibiotics being caused by aldehydes released from dying candida or other gut microbes? I get huge relief from taking NAD+ or niacin, plus molybdenum. Taking these nutrients help metabolise the aldehydes and may enable you to continue with your abx protocol. I also couldn't tolerate abx until I supported my adrenals with adaptogenic Herbs
     
    renski likes this.
  13. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    Will look into this.. I was able to tolerate erythromycin but could barely take ampicillin. Difuclan makes me feel a bit hyper/wired.. similar to ampicillin .. but then so do some digestive enzymes.. some natural antimicrobials don't do this.. I have no idea whats wrong with my body and I just keep going backwards without any improvement.

    My adrenals are in overdrive producing excessive amounts of cortisol all day (tests showed this).. which I guess is due to inflammation from the gut, or some other toxicity? oxalates, plastic, heavy metals..
     
  14. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Is there any scientific evidence to support those claims? Strep making your body "acidic" and that you need to "alkalize"?
     
  15. cfs6691

    cfs6691

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    I google searched high ammonia levels, liver disease comes up every time and in one site there's also kidney failure,Reye syndrome and rare genetic disorder of the urea cycle.There's also talk of ammonia affecting or being toxic to the brain.If your doctors didn't refer you to specialists for further investigation if you have the option you should look for other doctors.
     
  16. Cubbies2016

    Cubbies2016

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    How does one go about getting tested for ammonia? I see it's not a standard test. Can I ask my Rheumatologist who is treating my CFS or do I need to see a liver Dr. How do we justify taking the test? Just by asking ?
     
  17. InsomniacNextDoor

    InsomniacNextDoor

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    Hello @renski, I saw this post on high ammonia and some of your description of your condition. It very closely resembles my symptoms too, especially things that you mention: insomnia, depression, chronic fatigue; supplements like B12, Biotin, I feel overstimulated and it makes my anxiety/insomnia much worse; High ammonia, High oxalates, neurotransmitters are high glutamate, low gaba/serotonin; SIBO (streptococcus overgrowth, citrobacter), candida, adrenal fatigue and so on, CBS C699T, MTHFR, COMT, etc. I'm wondering, how are you progressing?
     
    ljimbo423 likes this.
  18. renski

    renski Senior Member

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    @InsomniacNextDoor, I'm getting better but still long way off. I focused on B vitamins and minerals but also a good multi vitamin. I haven't done anything on ammonia for a while, but am possibly going to start some L-Citrulline soon since it came back low on my latest Nutreval. What testing have you done?
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2018
  19. InsomniacNextDoor

    InsomniacNextDoor

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    @renski , thanks for the note. Do you have a reason to suspect heavy metals? I've been living with seven amalgams for seven years and I feel so dumb for ignoring this potential hazard for so long. I just removed them and will start chelation per Andre Cutler protocol. I can not take B complexes as there's usually something that will cause me trouble. B12 and Biotin, especially make me very stimulated. I feel better but I can't sleep so for now I only take B6 together with Mag and some other supplements. I'm also doing a fungal/SIBO cleanse with a Chinese medicine guy at the moment. L-Citrulline is probably going to be an interesting experiment but I'm going to try OKG as that one seems the like the best choice according to some articles I read. I've done genetic test, organic acids and some other stuff at the clinic but not Nutreval. Someone else here suggested its a good start but since I now mostly suspect mercury messing with my immune systems, thryroid, gut and so on I'll go on to chelate and see how things go. How's your sleep these days? Do you get hot or cold at night?
     

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