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Help with results Lyme Elisa

Discussion in 'Lyme Disease and Co-Infections' started by Thomas1, May 9, 2018.

  1. Thomas1

    Thomas1

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    Dear community.

    I've recently had some EliSpot tests done for co-infections and Lyme disease with Armin Labs. However, I do not know how to interpret them and I would very much appreciate some help. I'd like to know whether I should read this results as a probability (% chance I have Lyme or co-infection, scale (as in, some co-infections are always present, just in different measures from tim to time) or Binairy (It's either yes or no, you have or you don;t have Lyme). And I also would like to know if you think I have Lyme based on these results. My Functional med seems to think I have lyme based on these results. I do have many of the symptoms and am most willing to go along with a protocol of supplements and Bioticin proposed by my doc. I guess I trust him, but to me, the results appeared rather weak. Then again, I don't really know. Anyway, I'd really appreciate hearing your opinions on the test and the utility of a treatment first. Thanks a lot.


    1st I was tested for co-infections with the following results:

    1 Chlamydia pneumoniae-EliSpot ! 3 SI
    0-1 = negative
    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive


    1 EBV EliSpot (lytic) 1 SI
    0-1 = negative

    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive

    1 EBV EliSpot (latent) 1 SI
    0-1 = negative

    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive

    1 CMV EliSpot ! 2 SI
    0-1 = negative
    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive


    Coxsackie IgG-/IgA-antibodies (All elevated?)

    4 Coxsackie-Virus IgG A7 (IFT) + 1:1000 < 1:100 [ ........ *>
    4 Coxsackie-Virus IgG B1 (IFT) + 1:10000 < 1:100 [ ........ *>
    4 Coxsackie-Virus IgA A7 (IFT) + 1:10 < 1:10 [ ........ *>
    4 Coxsackie-Virus IgA B1 (IFT) + 1:100 < 1:10 [ ........ *>



    HHV6-IgG-/IgM-antibodies
    4 HHV6 IgG-antibodies (IFT) + 1:100 < 1:10 [ ........ *>

    4 HHV6 IgM-antibodies (IFT) <1:10 < 1:10 [ ....*... ]


    2nd test for Lyme had following results:
    - Blood count
    3 Leucocytes - 3,23 Tsd./ul 3,90 - 9,80 <* ........ ]
    3 Erythrocytes - 4,20 Mill./ul 4,54 - 5,77 <* ........ ]
    3 Hemoglobin - 13,4 g/dl 13,5 - 17,5 <* ........ ]

    3 Hematocrit 41,60 % 40,00 - 51,00 [ .*...... ]
    3 MCV + 99,00 fl 80,00 - 96,00 [ ........ *>
    3 MCH 31,90 pg 28,00 - 33,00 [ ......*. ]
    3 MCHC - 32,20 g/dl 33,00 - 37,00 <* ........ ]
    3 Thrombocytes 179,00 Tsd./ul 146,00 - 328,00 [ .*...... ]
    3 Differential Blood count
    3 Neutroph. Granulocytes 52,00 % 40,00 - 75,00 [ ..*..... ]
    3 Lymphocytes 34,70 % 17,00 - 47,00 [ ....*... ]
    3 Monocytes 10,20 % 4,00 - 12,00 [ ......*. ]
    3 Eosin. Granulocytes 1,90 % < 7,00 [ ..*..... ]
    3 Basoph. Granulocytes 1,20 % < 2,00 [ ....*... ]

    Elispot
    1 Borrelia b. Full Antigen 1 SI
    0-1 = negative

    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive

    1 Borrelia b. OSP-Mix ! 3 SI (Significant?)
    0-1 = negative
    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive

    1 Borrelia burgdorferi LFA-1 0 SI
    0-1 = negative

    2-3 = weak positive
    > 3 = positive


    CD3-/CD57+ Cells

    3 CD3-/CD56+ Flow Cytometry
    3 T cells CD3+ (%) 71,22 % 62,00 - 80,00 [ ....*... ]
    3 T cells CD3+ (absolute) - 798 /ul 900 - 1900 <* ........ ]
    3 NK cells CD56+ CD3- (%) 14,48 % 6,00 - 29,00 [ ..*..... ]
    3 NK cells CD56+ CD3- (absolute) 162 /ul 60 - 700 [ .*...... ]
    3 CD57+ NK-cells (%) 35,07 % 2,00 - 77,00 [ ...*.... ]
    3 CD57+ NK-cells (absolute) - 57 /ul 100 - 360 <* ........ ]


    Basic Test/Tickplex Plus * (All negative)

    2 Basic Test
    2 B.burg.+afz.+gar.IgG
    2 B.burg.+afz.+gar.IgM
    2 B.burg.+afz.+gar+round bod.Ig
    2 B.burg.+afz.+gar+round bod.Ig
    All came back negative.


    Thanks a lot in advance.

    Best Regards,
    Thomas
     
  2. Eastman

    Eastman Senior Member

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    @Thomas1

    I am not familiar with Lyme testing but have you seen this comment by @Hip on another thread?
    Also this thread: Discussion about Armin labs (Split Thread).
     
    bertiedog, Thinktank and Hip like this.
  3. Markus83

    Markus83

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    I'm from Germany and I wouldn't send my blood to Arminlabs. If you're supposed to have Lyme disease, order a Western Blot in a normal lab and maybe a second one in another (you can test negative in one lab and positive in the other). Elispot tests (like offered by Arminlabs) are not scientifically validated to my knowledge.
     
  4. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    Indeed, don't waste your money on the LTT / elispot, it's an unvalidated test that produces more false positive results than anything else.
     
  5. Markus83

    Markus83

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    Don't confuse LTT and Elispot as this are different methods. The borrelia LTT at IMD Berlin seems to be a rather good test, at least they could show that the test is negative in healthy controls and autoimmune diseases: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3474945/
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  6. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I had a false positive result with the LTT and so did my wife. These tests are the reason why so many people are being overdiagnosed with chronic lyme disease, and ending up on years of unnecessary antibiotic treatment.
     
  7. Markus83

    Markus83

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    Did you have a false positive test at the IMD or another lab? How do you know that it was false positive?
     
  8. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I had the LTT from BCA clinics, it's the same as the one you're referring to.

    I've been misdiagnosed with lyme disease based on that terrible LTT test. In total i've been nearly 4 years on antibiotics, IV and oral. The treatment has only caused irreversible harm. Besides that, i never experienced a herxheimer reaction to the abx, i always felt poisoned and terribly sick.

    4 years after treatment the doctor said; well, you don't have lyme disease....

    Various elisa and western blot tests have always tested negative.

    My wife tested false positive on the LTT too and was promptly prescribed longterm abx therapy. She then developed a reaction to the abx which sent her into a lupus flare. The doc. ignored her lupus diagnosis.
    She has never been bitten by a tick.

    The LTT and Elispot are unvalidated tests which no smart doctor should rely on.
     
    Markus83 likes this.
  9. Markus83

    Markus83

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    No, it's not the same. Maybe you should look into the published article, which actually is part of a scientific validation. I would never test in the BCA clinic, but you cannot compare the BCA with IMD, which works together with the Charité and have good scientists on their own.

    I'm sorry that you got to such an unserios institution, but I'm thankful about that comment (I'm already very sceptic about BCA, Arminlabs, etc.). But to be honest, I would never treat four years for Lyme disease without any improvement, even if I would test Western Blot positive in a standard lab.
     
  10. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I assume the techicalities of BCA's LTT are the same as IMD's.

    I didn't go to BCA, my doctor ordered the test from them. He's a highly regarded ME/CFS doc. on this forum....

    ILADS is all in favor for longterm abx and a few years back everyone thought that would be the solution to chronic lyme, now in hindsight we know better.
     
  11. Thinktank

    Thinktank Senior Member

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    I have to rectify my earlier post, i got the LTT from infectolab.
     
  12. Markus83

    Markus83

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    No it's not. LTTs are not standardized and you cannot compare different labs. It is hard to design the test in a way that you don't get false positve results. The only labs which have proven and published that healthy controls test reliably negative is IMD (see the linked paper above) and mlhb. But even at IMD it cannot be ruled out for sure that you test positive if you have other infections, and that's why the test is not accepted in the mainstream medicine yet.
     
    Mel9 likes this.
  13. Mel9

    Mel9 Senior Member

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    NSW Australia
    Thanks for alerting us to this test. I might like to try it to see if myBorrelia infection has now gone. Would that be suitable?
     
  14. Markus83

    Markus83

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    As I said LTT is not equal LTT, it depends heavily on the lab. The IMD is the only lab where I would do the LTT (but you may get false negative results and maybe false positives in other infections). Given that you are from Australia and the blood has to be in the lab in Germany maximum 24 hours after collecting, this test seems not suitable for you.
     
    Mel9 likes this.

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