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heavy metal urine testing by Doctor's Data

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by el_squared, Dec 11, 2017.

  1. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    Hi there,
    So in an effort to dig deeper into what all is wrong with me, a nautropath had me do a "provoked" metals urine test by Doctor's Data. The results came back and I tested very high for lead and mercury, and a few other things were abnormally high.
    I will talk to the doctor tomorrow about the results, but I'm wondering if anyone has experience with this test, if anyone thinks this kind of "provoked" urine test is reliable, etc.
    thanks,
    Laura
     
  2. Charles555nc

    Charles555nc Senior Member

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    What did they use? DMSA? DMPS? Chelation is great stuff as long as you usually go low and slow. EDTA is also great. I've met several docs who claim more people have lead problems then back when lead was in the gasoline.
     
  3. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    It is a reliable test. It demonstrates which toxins will come out of you if provoked by s chelator. The different chelators (EDTA, DMSA, DMPS) chelate different metals, do if the correct chelator wasnt used for a given metal you may have a toxicity that didn't show on the test.

    I've done several over the past 6 years. A few things I've learned:
    1. The test won't show how much you have of a toxin, it just shows how much is coming out of you. If you don't have any more, it won't show up any more.
    2. If you are spectacularly high in 1 or 2 toxins, the other results will be s bit unreliable..if they show up, you have thrm, But its hard to gauge how much you have.
    3. As you get rid of toxins, they usually don't go evenly. The body tends to prioritize and gets rid of one metal st s time, mostly, in order.
    4. Lead and mercury aren't good for you. They interfere with your biochemistry and lead to disease, especially neurological symptoms. They are worth chelating to get rid of them
    5. Chelating takes a long time. Best to be on a solid chelation program under a doctors supervision. Naturopathic doctors are typically good at helping with this as well as replenishing goid minerals and supporting your liver, kidneys, and intestines.

    I successfully got rid of arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, and platinum over time. The test and my naturopathic doctor's guidance were very helpful.

    Best wishes...
     
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  4. *GG*

    *GG* senior member

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    Seems reliable to me, did the testing almost 10 years ago. I did the testing and was found to be high in lead and mercury as well. Did detox for some time (2 to 3 years?).

    I did not get much better, perhaps less brain fog, but was curious how I would test again. So did the testing, and my levels had dropper, were fine I guess, this is all years ago and paperwork is not readily available for me.

    GG
     
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  5. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    This is what Dr Andy Cutler has to say about provoked heavy metal tests:
    And this article says:
     
  6. HowToEscape?

    HowToEscape? Senior Member

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    I am not a doc, but something sounds odd about that test. Try asking your regular MD about that specific lab and 'provoked' testing. I believe this is not an accepted test that an MD can prescribe.
    Did the naturopath warn you that chelating has its own risks? Chelation can pull heavy metals out of bones and give them a means to reach organs. Keep in mind that a naturopath is free to recommend pretty much anything they want - there's no standard of practice they must adhere to. There is a theory that the mechanisms that normally get rid of small amounts of undesirable stuff of all kinds are down-regulated in us (MECFS folk). It stands to reason - everything about us runs at half speed, if that.

    There's a site I've found rather helpful - the writer is rather sharp, and the commentariat is about half retired MDs: look up Respectful Insolence, the site should be among the first hits. You might just try posting a question about chelation even if it's off topic, there are a fair number of people who know their shizz posting there.
     
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  7. caledonia

    caledonia

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    I've done that kind of test with the help of a naturopath. It showed yellow I think on mercury and lead. I did some chelating for 6 months (with mercury fillings still in) (very very bad I now know). After 6 months we retested and the levels were in the green. However, I wasn't any better.

    Now that I've done Cutler hair testing and looking at his lists of symptoms, I know that I still have mercury and lead and also arsenic which the other test missed. The only kind of chelation I tolerate is Cutler. I've gotten worse with other kinds of chelation.

    Check out my signature link for Cutler info.
     
  8. pibee

    pibee Senior Member

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    can you post your results?
    i was always wondering how significant my results were
    i never did anything about metals except mostly safe amalgam removal in 5/2016, since 12/2016-2/2017 i got new problems which corresponds to what they mention - worsening 9 months after removal. but i am still skeptical

    my resutls-
    this was DMSA 6 hr urine challenge test

    so for mercury, 2,800 would be reference for other, chelated samples, and mine is 9000, while normal without any provocation is 1,000.


    :/


    what is interesting, i got worse right after this DMSA provocation test (10/2015), but the same month i did also Coartem (antimalarial prescribed for babesia). One of these 2 things triggered some mild depression in me, ... dont remember details but my personality changed and well, still not fullly back to my ex-self but eventually it faded.
    upload_2017-12-12_21-23-49.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  9. el_squared

    el_squared Senior Member

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    HI there,
    Sorry for the delay. I somehow didn't see your message. I DO have neurological problems, which is why my doctor wants me to do treatment. The first thing I'm supposed to do is an EDTA suppository.
    Anyway, if you were treated, did you improve? Did you see an improvement in any of your problems that you can link to your treatment? Please let me know. Thanks, Laura
     
  10. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    I am wondering what you and your Doc believe caused elevated levels of those metals. That is supposing the levels in your body are high as opposed to you just having more than average coming out of you.
     
  11. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    For arsenic and lead, I went from sleeping 16 hours a day to about 9-10 and cognitive function improved. For mercury, my candida problem improved and brain foflg at that time went away.

    @andyguitar
    My mercury came from 2 old mercury amalgams in my mouth, a history of eating tunafish sandwiches and sushi, and living near a concrete plant that later publicly announced it had reduced its mercury emissions by 95%.

    Lead likely came from leaded gas in the old days and exposure to lead paint.

    Arsenic came from brown rice, non-organic chicken and red wine from California, Washington, and Oregon, all of ehich have arsenic used in their production as well as exposure to pressure treated lumber.

    However, everyone is toxic to some degree... Some folks get rid of it more easily and keep up with exposure, while others of us are lousy at detoxifying or short of the nutrients needed to drive detox biochemistry. Or are poor eliminators, so toxins are reabsorbed.
     
  12. HowToEscape?

    HowToEscape? Senior Member

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    Why would organic chicken have any less or more arsenic then any other chicken? Arsenic comes from the ground and chicken eating vegetarian feed could have it especially if they ate rice or parts of rice plants.
    Supermarket chicken taste like cardboard, but I’ve never had any health effects from it. Actually the average organic chicken here (USA) isn’t very good either. Cheap, but tasteless.
     
  13. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/SafetyHealth/ProductSafetyInformation/ucm257540.htm

    https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2015/01/how-much-arsenic-is-in-your-rice/index.htm

    Also, we had switched from non-organic to organic chicken a few years ago, and my daughter tested negative for arsenic just before going to college.

    After her freshman year, she retested and she had significant arsenic toxicity. We got the college and town water reports, which showed no arsenic, she's allergic to rice and not a big drinker (she was a competitive swimmer) so the main source of the arsenic seemed to be the conventionally grown chicken she ate a lot of on campus.
    It made a believer out of me.
     
  14. Rlman

    Rlman Senior Member

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    mercury toxicity is known to cause personality changes and mental illness symptoms (both often can be severe). the challenge test may have redistributed heavy metals in your body and caused you to become more symptomatic as a result. Cutler explains how that can happen.
     
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  15. pibee

    pibee Senior Member

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    yes, I know, but also could be Coartem bc babesia, ... strategical mistakes , doing many things in short time.... Depression lasted 6+ months, later I was mostly back to myself (which is not great either lol)

    for some reason I am very skeptical about heavy metals... I mean wouldnt there be more success stories healing from ME, if they're so big factor?
     
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  16. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    Heavy metals can sit in the mitochondria and impair ATP production. (See attached photo - the black stuff is arsenic in the mitochondria.)

    I have had dramatic differences in function by dealing with heavy metals. At one point, mobilizing arsenic that had been hiding in my body have me symptoms of acute arsenic toxicity, measured on a blood test as acute arsenic toxicity according to the CDC definition.

    I've been under the care of experts, who recognized my body burden of toxicity and brought me through a chelation process to detoxify me as quickly and safely as my body would allow, much faster than the Cutler protocol, using a combination of DMSA, DMPS, EDTA, and PolyMVA with a good deal of methylation support and mineral replenishment.

    Having seen exoerts present on population statistics of toxicity in many countries, I suspect that this is a more common problem than most people realize and that it is a big factor in many PWME's illnesses and that dealing with it with a sensible strategy will help people great deal. But I think a lot of PWME aren't even aware this is a factor and don't get tested or treated.

    However, most of us have other factors contributing to this complex illness as well, so a comprehensive approach is in order.
     

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  17. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind that industrial pollution can contribute to, and be the cause of many health problems. I have to say that @Learner1 certainly had some very bad luck living near a toxic concrete plant. In the UK much of our traditional- and pollution causing- industries have closed down now. But some of the crap they produced is probably still around. That said I think you would have to be pretty unlucky to get a toxic dose of heavy metals in the UK these days. Mercury fillings are a different story of course.
     
  18. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    @andyguitar I recently saw Dr. Joseph Pizzorno do a presentation on toxicity to several doctors. He shared data on toxicity in countries around the world, along with the science linking various diseases to individual toxins and the thresholds of toxicity.

    He emphasized that EVERYONE in every country is toxic to some degree, but that from country to country, there may be a different mix of toxins. He shared research linking toxins to high blood pressure, diabetes, cancer, neurological diseases, etc. He had done toxin testing on large groups of people, correlating their toxic loads to their health problems and finding that removing toxins did a great deal to improve their health.

    If you check up on him, you'll find he's been tapped as a medical expert by 2 US Presidents and has a resume full of science-based integrative medicine, in addition to authoring several books, his most recent being "The Toxin Solution."

    As for the UK, yes you have toxins in your soil, where food is grown, likely left over from earlier days. You also get air pollution from the US, just as we on the west coast get air pollution from China, which falls in rain over your country. And the oceans are polluted, too.

    Some people are able to keep up with getting rid of toxins as quickly as they encounter them. But many others don't. And, with the conversations on this site about methylation and glutathione production issues in PWME, one can assume that they are toxic as proper methylation and glutathione are essential to detoxifying, in addition to proper liver and gall bladder and intestinal function.

    So, it's highly likely that UK PWME are just as affected, though its a good bet your GPs and guidelines aren't up on testing for chronic heavy metal exposure or delivering chelation protocols to patients, so its not a very visible problem.
     
  19. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

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    There has been a lot of news coverage in the UK recently about the effects of traffic pollution on cardiovascular health. Those effect are serious. Ironically the greatest threat is encountered by people who keep fit by jogging in urban areas. Their deeper breathing leads to deep inhalation of substances from diesel exhaust called Particulants. This is very bad stuff. I dont doubt that the Doc you quote knows his stuff. Some of the toxins in UK soil comes from the fertilisers we use here. I expect that is true in other countries to. Only do organic gardening myself, as do all my friends.
     
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