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Heavy Brain fog and energy fluctuation - history of depression and anxiety

Sherlock

Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing
Messages
1,287
Location
k8518704 USA
Have you looked into Eosinophilic Disorders of the GI tract? Do you ever have trouble swallowing?
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
No problems with swallowing. They checked nearly everything regarding my GI-tract and Immunesystem.

I get little better last weeks again. So I make tiny progress in my wellbeing every two weeks since on the ketogenic diet.

Yesterday I started with taking Cod Liver Oil (which has great amounts of Vitamin A and little Vitamin D in it...

And what do you think happened?

Today I took it again and now, 1 hour later I am sitting here, experiencing the "allergy-symptoms" again. Runny nose, sore throat.

Why the fuck does this happen? Again this is a health food, recommend by many authours regarding auto immune issues. It is the same as in the case of Vitamin C. It should be good, but it makes me feeling sick. As if my body reacts to it as if this is an allergen.

This cod liver oil is a great product with only natural occuring Vitamin A and D. There are really no additives. There is little tyramine in it, but this is less than in a piece of cheese...

So again, it seems, that something, that is making my body stronger, triggers these symptoms...


There maybe one other possible trigger, but the chance is just low: Bulletproof Vanilla powder. I use it rarely. I used it yesterday and had no reaction (and I also took it weeks before without any reaction) So typically my body should have been reacting yesterday when it was the vanilla.

So I can say for 90% sure, that the reaction is due to the cod liver oil....

I know, that nobody of you can tell me what is going on in my body and I don´t expect that. I am just writing down my frustration. Because I know that these nutritions: Vitamin C, A, K2, D and all the B vitamins are the key to health for me (of course in combination with my current diet) How do I know?

I read from so many doctors (working with patient with autoimmune disorders) and experiences and with nearly every protocol, these Vitamins where fundamental part of the process....And I cannot tolerate these. This is so unfair...All the supplements I tried: I gave them to family members. Nobody has a problem taking them. They can take as much as they want and have no problem. And the one who needs it most, reacts to it, like it´s poison
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
it´s unbelieveable:

Today I ate calf´s liver and this also triggered the "allergy-like symptoms". This can not be due to histamine, because I don´t react to other food rich in histamine like that.

It can just be either allergic/immune response or detox-reaction.

Because I have no problems with beef protein, I think this is a detox reaction which sets on because of the high nutrients in liver (contains more vitamins and minerals than any planbased food. The only vitamin where this is not the case is vitamin C. But cod liver oil has very much vitamin A and so has liver....

The reaction from eating liver came up much slower than when I eat the pure nutrients as supplements...I think this is due to slower ingestion and uptake of the nutrients. But the symptoms are flaming up now.

I really ask myself what the hell this means to me...

I also had this reaction when my mother made a soup out of many vegetables. But I always just had the reaction after eating the soup firstly after I did not eat it long time. When we ate the soup again the next day to use the leftover, I did not react anymore...

Next week I will speak to a natural health doctor who can test heavy metal toxicity. He does this through injecting these (provocating) and then makes urine analyses...Never heard of that before. What do you think of this?
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
@Gondwanaland I don´t know exactly how it is done. I will have to ask. I will be careful with this.

@jepps:
What means strong reaction? And how long did the reaction last?

@all: What are the best ways to detect heavy metal toxicity and then how to threat it?

I am now dead sick...The nutrients from the liver are much slower absorbed than e.g. when taking cod liver oil where everything is high concentrated...So over night I really got fucked up.

I don´t know what to do...There are 2 possibilities:

1. It´s kind of an allergic reaction--> I should avoid food and supplements (Vit C, vitamin A, Quercetine etc.) as much as I can. I have to avoid "super food" like liver, where vitamins are high concentrated.

2. It is a detox reaction. The nutrients are either triggerin methylation to fast or making my body strong so that it can detox and the free coming toxin are whatever are making me feel sick--> I then should take e.g. a small piece of liver each day or every other day to keep this running on a tolerable strength.


What do you think?? I think that this is not allergic reaction because when it were the proteins of liver I also should react to beef protein itself, right?

And when I would react allergic to any vitamin or some other substance, I also should react to normal meat as the nutrients are also in that, just much lower concentration...


Today Chriss Kresser is posting again that everyone should eat grass fed liver because it´s a super food.
It is so frustrating to experience that everything which should be good, makes me sick...It feels unfair...

The same with vitamine C, Quercetine, NAC, Kava Kava, I could count up a whole list...
 

jepps

Senior Member
Messages
519
Location
Austria
@jepps:
What means strong reaction? And how long did the reaction last?

.

It has worsened her histamine reaction, after this heavy metal test she reacted to almost every food. The test was in spring. Since 3 months she builds up her gut with RS+prebiotics+probiotics (according the long RS-thread), and after worsening symptoms now she is better than before spring.
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
@jepps : What is RS? Resistant starch? I also build up my gut flora with the help of lactulose and probiotics. I do not tolerate inulin/FOS/fructans. They trigger brain fog and depression in me. I do tolerate the GOS. They just lead to some gas but nothing more.

I take probiotics long time now (probiotics alone will not alter your flora effectively but can work immunemodulating) and lactulose (low dose is good prebiotic in studys)since one week. Cannot say my digestion god better. Still have irregular motility (2days constipated then one day normal movement with 2-3 movements).

Do you know what the results were of her provocative test? Normally when finding toxicity they also make therapeutic interventions...
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
Hi @Santino
all the stuff which is good for people (NAC, Tumeric, Quercetine, Glutamine, Kava Kava, St. Johnsons Worth and much more) leads to allergy-like reactions in my body...
It can happen to some people.
Those were my symptoms before my MCS started, slowly initially then it exploded.
One possible cause of my problems, now resolved, was perhaps a wrong detox iv protocol i did. Then chronic Lyme disease which seems able to sometimes cause sensitivities. Another possible cause (unlikely in my case) can be exposure to (often hidden) mold.
The good news is that you can find out what's bothering you by intradermal testing.

You seem to suffer from a lot of sensitivities and in my experience the most effective treatment is an antigen vaccine built around the foods, supplements etc. to which one is sensitive to. This kind of immunotherapy can correct the way the immune system reacts abnormally to things and can also act at the brain level.

In the UK where I was treated, there's a German doctor who used low dose immunotherapy in Germany (see link).
http://www.breakspearmedical.com/files/staff.html
If you're interested, you could contact them and ask where this kind of testing and treatment is available in your country (There were at least a couple of places but don't remember where).

I met a doctor in alternative medicine who works with muscle testing (kinesiology) to determine what could help somebody. What do you think of this?
I used this extensively and whilst it can help in the short-term, later it can cause other imbalances which then you again address by the same means. My own experience is that it can lead to fundamental "imbalances" (can't think of a better word right now) that are difficult to remove and may make the illness harder to cure.

He does this through injecting these (provocating) and then makes urine analyses...Never heard of that before. What do you think of this?
Definitely not recommended.
If you suspect heavy metals could be a problem you want to check and ask your questions in this forum
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/frequent-dose-chelation/info

and/or read this book
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amalgam-Illness-Diagnosis-Treatment-Better/dp/0967616808/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1421421235&sr=1-1&keywords=amalgam illness

before you do anything.
Last but not least I would reconsider testing in depth for Lyme disease but only through an experienced Lyme literate doctor.

Best wishes.
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
I often did rice diet where I only eat rice for days. But this did not lead to healing. Just to symptom relief. But the symptom relief will also occur without rice diet for me now.

I just have to eat my diet which I created myself for me through elimination.

So in 1-2 days the reaction will be gone.

@xrunner :
Thank you for your advice. The problem is: nobody knows if this is an immune response. I was tested during I had this reaction. There was no elevated histamine, Dao was normal (blood and gastric tract), my immune markers were also not abnormal or showing any reaction. I also have no allergies (tested IGG and IGE). Before doing the ketogenic diet I had little IGG reaction to milk, eggs, soja. But this faded away completely after a few week elimination. But I don´t eat this food anyway now.

It is THE question if it is detox oder an adverse reaction to the substance itself. But I don´t think that it is possible that anybody reacts to a essential vitamin itself. I think one only can react to something which happens because of the vitamin. But of course, nobody knows.

But if it is detox, I have to find a way, how to implement all nutrients so low dose, that it won´t trigger detox. I experienced more depression and anxiety today (this was not the case with vitamin C). I think this is due to overmethylation from the folate which is in the liver and due to the histamine which is in the liver.

Since 3 months, I live low histamine, low fructose, just natural foods, ketogenic diet. I drink just good water from out glas container. This is what helps the most and until last week I got better every week. I wanted to use cod liver oil which failed because it triggered the symptoms and then I tried the same with calf´s liver which also triggered the symptoms and even more symptoms (maybe because of histamin and ovemethylation).

My basic food-list which I can tolerate well without any adverse reaction is:

Ghee (this my energy source no 1)
fresh meat from all sources
fish
Zucchini, green beans, carrots
salt
sometimes goose fat (organic)
olive oil
krill oil
Bulletproof coffee (mold free)
Upgraded Vanilla (pure natural Vanilla)


Supplements:
probiotic
lactulose
krill oil
magnesium citrate
seldom (maybe 4x per month): GABA, Valerian

When I eat like this I get stable psychologically and I do not have the "allergic feeling"- reactions anymore for 100%. But my energy level and mood is lower than I used to have before I got sick. I also have constipation since I don´t eat fructose and having the proctitis. My mood is between 3-4 (scale from 1-10), so pretty good and stable for someone who is bipolar rapid cycling. BUT always being 3 and maximal 4 is not nice. The same with my energy. I have still some brain fog and relatively low moitvation and energy. And last but not least: there are 3 autoimmune diseases going on. Thats the reason why I alway try things like vitamin, cod liver oil, eating super foods like liver etc. I want to get healthy again and these "experiments" are the only reason for having reactions.


So if I will stop experiments and stick to the above diet, I will be pretty stable on a niveau which is too low for a 27 guy, but I do not suffer (really suffered hard from the heavy mood swings, you do not want to be on 0-2 on the scale over having anxiety often).

When it is "true" what Dr. Amy Yasko or Dr. Lynch are saying, then there is such a phenomen as detox-symptoms.
I never read from people having this because of eating liver, cod liver oil or vitamin C etc. Also there are substances which should trigger detox but cause the symptoms in me, so that it is so difficult to make conclusions about the cause of the reaction and more important: to make a threatment-plan...

My plan is to stick to my diet, hoping that my gut get´s more healty (is it sick??--> they never found any disease, even the chronic proctitis faded away and was not to see anymore during my second diagnostic coloscopy)

Further my plan was to step by step add beneficial supplements like cod liver oil etc. But nearly everything is triggering my symptoms (lastly: Vit C, Cod liver oil, liver)

Next thing would be Lithium orotate. But what then? Either avoiding all these super nutrients to avoid symptoms or using really tiny doses of all and trying to get trough the symptoms which should be not as heavy as now of course...

That´s also the idea of Dr. Amy with her multi. She says that it is so low dosed, that it won´t trigger detox in anybody, but there is 60mg Vit C in it and this would definitive trigger symptoms in me after a few days...

That was a summary of what is going on in me. Maybe it helps anybody to help me better.

I will listen to the holistic doctor what his thoughts are about the heavy metal thing. I think the provocating is with such small doses which also occure in natural food. So I ask myself if this really can be so harmful...


Best regards
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
Thank you for your advice. The problem is: nobody knows if this is an immune response. I was tested during I had this reaction.
You're welcome.
You can test your immune response by intradermal skin testing. This consists of injecting under the skin (upper arm and shoulder) a dilution of an antigen that may be causing a reaction, e.g. cod liver oil. They then wait about 10 minutes and see the reaction on your skin.

You can test for hundreds of antigens including any kind of food/drink, most supplements, medications, chemicals like VOCs, smells like ink and perfumes, mold etc.
For e.g. in my case the worst test reactions I had was to parmesan cheese, quinoa and the antibiotic ceftriaxone.

Details of intradermal testing http://www.breakspearmedical.com/files/how_tested.html
 
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Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
there are 3 autoimmune diseases going on
My suggestion is to look into Low Dose Naltrexone (LDN).

Ketogenic diet can induce hyperthyroidism in autoimmune patients without changes in lab results, then a mix of hyper and hypo symptoms follow, and next hypothyroidism (significant even if considered subclinical by endochrinologists and disregarded for treatment).
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
Hello Gondwanaland,

When posting such information, I would like to see references. And I don't mean a report of one oerson who went ketogenic.

I read nearly every study about the ketogenic diet and there was excessive research done (and it is still going on). I also read studys about it's impact on thyroid function. There is never a case of hyperfunctioning. This hypofunctioning is absolutely functional and makes sense when the metabolism runs ketogenic and as you eat carbohydrates the changes reverse fully. Not matter if you ate ketogenic for one month or for years.

The ketogenic state is more natural than any other state I could imagine. It also sets in after one day of fasting. It is absolutely natural and there is no reason to think it's harmful. The opposite is the case:
All inflammatory markers in the blood go down (there is no other diet which was found to do that), the ketogenic state activates genes which lead to multiple release of natural antioxidants in the brain. As soon as you are "ketoadapted", your brain has constant energy supply and your mitochondria work much better! This is very beneficial for ALL neurologic disorder and also for CFS.

The only other diet besides ketogenic diet which I would consider as beneficial would be the paleo diet if you do thibgs like intermittend fasting to get into ketosis sonetimes.

For me, there is no better way to stabilize my mood than a ketogenic diet. Others people with bipolar disorder need medication like quetiapine, high dose lithium, valproate etc....

Since eating ketogenic, my mood is much more stable. Everything got better.

So I think thats absolutely the wrong point to think about changing anything. Maybe you could also use the benefits of a ketogenic or a paleo diet (of course autoimmune protocol and starting with 30 d elimination)

I will google the other suggestion but I don't think that drugs are the right way to address chronic disease as long as there is nothing out of controle...also: nobody knows long term effects. I think that anything which suppresses the immune system could make everything worse in the long term...

Best regards

@Gondwanaland : lDN sounds interesting. It could be worth a try but the idea to take it forever is frightening (as many cases fall back after discontinuing). Also: guess what happens when I take medication? The last three medications I used all caused my "allergy-like" symptoms and I could not tolerate them for long time...:-/
 
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Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
When posting such information, I would like to see references. And I don't mean a report of one oerson who went ketogenic.
My endocrinologist said that this would happen: first hyper than switch to hypo. I haven't researched about it but I experienced it while eating low carb diet. Now I am completely intolerant to coconut oil since it stimulates thyroid and I become hypo upon consuming it. I am afraid all I can offer to you is a n=1 anecdote, since I will not research about it right now.

Paul Jaminet published several articles about thyroid and diet on his site.
I think the series started with this one:
Low Carb High Fat Diets and the Thyroid
Chris Kresser also wrote about side effects of very low carb.
the idea to take it forever is frightening
I don't like the idea either, but I already am on T4/T3 replacement anyway.

P.S. You might also want to look into hypervitaminosis A


PPS I did a DDI hair test and found it reliable.
 
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Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
Thank you again!

Now, I can tell you, that your endocrinologist is wrong and if you want to, I can show you the studies which I mentioned.

When switching to ketogenic diet, you won´t see rise of thyroid hormones but you will generally see a decrease of t3, while t4 stays the same, especially when you eat hypocaloric diet (which I don´t do). The thyroid levels raise when you eat carbohydrates. There is no need to be afraid about low thyroid on a ketogenic diet, because it is functional. That´s what many older studies don´t conclude correctly. It´s part of the protein sparing effect.

And as soon as you begin to eat carbohydrate again, you will see that you t3 rises again. There is absoltely no harm to your thyroid. If you have problems with your thyroid, it is unlikely that a low carb diet caused this. It is much more likely that you had problems with your thyroid and thats the reason why you have problem with your thyroid adapting to the low carb or normal diet.


I follow Chris Kresser and saw all his podcasts relevant to paleo/low carb etc.

The reason Chris does not recommend permanent very low carb is because it restricts many beneficial food.
And that´s right. Rice, yam, sweet potatoe, squash and many more. But this not because of the energy out of carbohydrate but because of soluble fiber which is so beneficial for your gut. That´s the reason why Chris does not recommend very low carb. Because you miss many gut healing foods.

But Chris does not address people with bipolar disorder. I have not just to deal with gut problem, but also with bipolar disorder which is really tricky.


First: A ketogenic diet leads to a change in neurotransmitter relation, which is VERY beneficial for all people who suffer from bipolar disorder and states of hyperexcitability (anxiety, irritability). There is more Glutamate turned into GABA while eating ketogenic diet.

Second: After being adapted (which take 4 weeks in most cases, whereby most important things are already adapted after 2 weeks in general), you have a stable energy supply to the brain, NO MATTER how much you eat. There are experiments (which aren´t possible to do today) done, where they inject people in ketosis, who were ketoadapted, inject insulin. Their blood sugar dropped below 30 which normally leads to coma or even death. The people which underwent the experiment felt absolutely fine, because the brain can 40% rely on ketones. And that´s what I experience also: After 4 or 5 weeks, I NEVER experienced hypoglycemia. I can go without breakfast, doing sport or anything, I want feel the state of hypoglycemia anymore, really. I notice that I have this constant energy, although this does not completely lift my brain fog or low energy, which I had MORE on a normal diet.

Third: The ketogenic diet is antiinflammatory. Compared to a low fat, high vegetable diet, low meat, moderate protein diet, which also had positive influence on some inflammatory markers, the ketogenic diet lead to a decrease in ALL 14 inflammatory marker, including C-reactive protein, TNF etc.

Forth:
As I said: ß-hydroxybutyrate (which is the main ketone body after being adapted) leads to an inhibition of histone deacetylase. You should really research this, as this is absolutely great. This leads to up to 5x higher antioxidants in your brain!!

Thats the reason coconut oil or even better: MCT oil is used. The bod makes ketones out of this. But this effects is peanuts compared to eat a ketogenic diet with a ration of 3:1-4:1 (4 times as much fat as protein).

That said, Chris Kresser isn´t wrong about his concerns regarding to the gut flora when you constantly lack in soluble fiber. If I would not have foodbmap intolerance, I could eat a lot of food which had these soluble fiber. But I can´t.

I eat a lot of Zucchini, green beans and moderate carrots. I also eat lactulose (3x 3g) + probiotics (2x). I try to introduce more foods with soluble fiber as soon as possible, but it is difficult and I have to be careful with that. Maybe because the stimulation of bifidos through the lactulose, I will be able to tolerate inulin again in the future? I hope so. Chris Kresser observed in many clients that they were not able to tolerate even tiny amounts prebiotics, that they build up their tolerance through starting low with soluble fiber and then going up...


Hypervitaminosis is very very unlikely. Maybe you want to read Chris Kressers article about liver or cod liver oil.

Bets regards!
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
If you have problems with your thyroid, it is unlikely that a low carb diet caused this. It is much more likely that you had problems with your thyroid and thats the reason why you have problem with your thyroid adapting to the low carb or normal diet.
That is what I have been trying to say. You have already detected 3 autoimmune conditions. It is very likekely that the thyroid is affected as well, even though lab results don't reflect it yet.

A while ago I recommended these linkd to my sister who also has Hashimoto's:

http://chriskresser.com/are-you-lower-carb-than-you-think
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/07/optimizing-carbohydrate-intake-for-your.html

I agree with everything you wrote but several healthy foods affect my thyroid negatively, especially coconut oil. It is healthy for everyone except for me.

The ketogenic diet is antiinflammatory. Compared to a low fat, high vegetable diet, low meat, moderate protein diet, which also had positive influence on some inflammatory markers, the ketogenic diet lead to a decrease in ALL 14 inflammatory marker, including C-reactive protein, TNF etc.
Yes, my lab results reflect that. I must be careful with seeds (flax, sesame, sunflower) because I immediately feel the the omega 6 inflammatory impact.
 

Santino

Senior Member
Messages
209
I cannot do a hair test because I have no hair ;-)

I will speak to the naturopath on tuesday. I have to work together with somebody who has exoerience with heavy metal toxicity.

I don't think that I have a disorder with my thyroid. It could be of course but it was checked so ofteb. There were antibodied checked 3 times. My thyroid was always fine and I also have no symptoms of hyper or hypo.

I would not eat the oil u mention, even if I was healthy. This is crapfood.

I eat gras fed ghee which has omega 3 to onega 6 1.5:1.

I also eat some olive oil. Supplement with krill oil and fat from fish or the meat I eat.

Never would eat oil from seed or nuts. Flax oil just little fresh and cold pressed. But I dont use this. Ghee made from out butter gave me significant improvement of all symptoms. I feel like everything is getting better every week a little since I eat the ghee.

As I said: i would recommend the paleo principles from Chris to fight any autoimmune disease. But wheb it comed to bipolar disorder I recommend a ketogenic diet to get stable. When being stable, one can try to switch to paleo or what I would do: bulletproof diet from Dave asprey. This paleo with some modifications.

I dont want to take the risk and loose my stability when introducing carbs back. This will lead to alternations in many processes which also could affect my mood.