• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Has Big Pharma caused us mitochondrial damage?

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
Here is a good article by Seneff, and there is more to the article than what I quoted....


How Statins Really Work Explains Why They Don't Really Work.

"The statin industry has enjoyed a thirty year run of steadily increasing profits ,as they find ever more ways to justify expanding the definition of the segment of the population that qualify for statin therapy."

Wow you mean they make a lot of money on these drugs? Holy cow, who woulda thunk it.

"I predict that the statin drug run is about to end, and it will be a hard landing. The thalidomide disaster of the 1950's and the hormone replacement therapy fiasco of the 1990's will pale by comparison to the dramatic rise and fall of the statin industry. I can see the tide slowly turning, and I believe it will eventually crescendo into a tidal wave, but misinformation is remarkably persistent, so it may take years."

"The impact of the damage due to the statin anti-cholesterol mythology extends far beyond those who actually consume the statin pills. Cholesterol has been demonized by the statin industry, and as a consequence Americans have become conditioned to avoid all foods containing cholesterol. This is a grave mistake, as it places a much bigger burden on the body to synthesize sufficient cholesterol to support the body's needs, and it deprives us of several essential nutrients. "

"Every individual gets at most only one chance to grow old. When you experience your body falling apart, it is easy to imagine that this is just due to the fact that you are advancing in age. I think the best way to characterize statin therapy is that it makes you grow older faster. Mobility is a great miracle that cholesterol has enabled in all animals. By suppressing cholesterol synthesis, statin drugs can destroy that mobility. No study has shown that statins improve all-cause mortality statistics. But there can be no doubt that statins will make your remaining days on earth a lot less pleasant than they would otherwise be."

 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,097
Location
australia (brisbane)
@heapsreal

Hey take the statins if your "heart" so desires..haha. I'll take a pass on them.

And who actually did the research on Crestor?


Who does the research on any drug. Strange question when all drug companies have to do their own studies. Havent heard much about independent studies being payed for by others. In reality an independent study should be done but who pays??

The links your providing look like they are more interested in selling their books.

Most of the anti statin drs dont rule out there use for everyone and generally say they are given out to often which is fair enough. But excessive ldl and other risk factors im sure many would consider there use or they could be liable for malpractice if their patient did have a heart attack.

yeah mate my heart does desire crestor at the moment until i can reduce other risk factors such as weight and activity.

I'm not saying cholesterol is the be all and end all as u seem to be implying but with inactivity we all have with cfs , greatly increases our risk factors of heart disease and other diseases.
 

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
Strange question when all drug companies have to do their own studies.

Wow, imagine that too, they do their own studies. Not that I live my life being a conspiracy theorist about everything, but I did see the movie "The Fugitive" with Harrison Ford. I mean, I know it's only a movie <LOL>, but if you don't think that some of that crap goes on in the drug industry for real, then I have a nice old creaky walking bridge to sell you that goes across the Grand Canyon. In fact, I'll give you a 2 for 1 special. I have the same bridge that goes across Niagara Falls. Since I like you, and you're a pretty darn funny guy to boot, you'll get both of those bridges for 5 bucks LOL. What a bargain eh? I'm giving you both of those bridges on the cheap, because I know it's going to cost you money to replace those bridges LOL.
 
Last edited:

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,097
Location
australia (brisbane)
Wow, imagine that too, they do their own studies. Not that I live my life being a conspiracy theorist about everything, but I did see the movie "The Fugitive" with Harrison Ford. I mean, I know it's only a movie <LOL>, but if you don't think that some of that crap goes on in the drug industry for real, then I have a nice old creaky walking bridge to sell you that goes across the Grand Canyon. In fact, I'll give you a 2 for 1 special. I have the same bridge that goes across Niagara Falls. Since I like you, and you're a pretty darn funny guy to boot, you'll get both of those bridges for 5 bucks LOL. What a bargain eh? I'm giving you both of those bridges on the cheap, because I know it's going to cost you money to replace those bridges LOL.


I take it u dont use any drugs than because they are only tested by drug companies ???????

Or take supplements because only the people that sell them do studies on them.

Doesnt leave much in the way of treatments for you.

good luck with that .
 

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
I take it u dont use any drugs than because they are only tested by drug companies ???????

Or take supplements because only the people that sell them do studies on them.

Doesnt leave much in the way of treatments for you.

good luck with that .

I have used drugs before, mostly AD's. The only other drugs I tried was HC, a T4/T3 combo, and T3. But when I read so much negative info on statins, and what I know my mom experienced on them, then that is good enough for me to stay away from them. Do as you wish, I just hope you don't get any bad side effects from taking them. You'll probably get lucky if you don't.
 
Last edited:

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,097
Location
australia (brisbane)
I have used drugs before, mostly AD's. The only ever drugs I tried was HC, a T4/T3 combo, and T3. But when I read so much negative info on statins, and what I know my mom experienced on them, then that is good enough for me to stay away from them. Do as you wish, I just hope you don't get any bad side effects from taking them. You'll probably get lucky if you don't.


You have a family history of side effects to statins so i don't blame you.

I've weighed up my risks and need to do something . Hypertension after head shingles with chronic headaches and apparently there are increased risks of strokes after shingles on the head. Im backed in a corner with ldl so high.

I agree with many things you say about cholesterol but theres a time and a place, i just dont agree its a blanket no to statins.

you know i don't take something unless i have looked into it.

Now go have a beer,
Cheers
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
I just hope you don't get any bad side effects from taking them. You'll probably get lucky if you don't

I'm sorry your mom had a bad experience with statins, but I don't think you are taking into consideration that any drug/supplement has risks as well as benefits. So what you say above is not applicable to everyone who takes statins as well as assuming no one has done the research.but you. Making these type of statements IMHO, is condensending and never helps in a reasoned debate which has information that may help others.

Barb
 

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
I'm sorry your mom had a bad experience with statins, but I don't think you are taking into consideration that any drug/supplement has tisks as well as benefits. So what you say above is not applicable to everyone who takes statins as well as assuming no one has done the research.but you. Making these type of statements IMHO, never helps in a reasoned debate which has information that may help others.

Barb

I never said it was applicable to everyone. Anyone can do as they wish. Some people may not even be aware of negative info on statins, and there is nothing wrong with bringing some attention to those negatives. Anyone also has the right to believe those negatives or not. I also stated "way up yonder" that I'm biased on this subject. What I do know is, I improved the quality of my mom's life by getting her off the statins, which I think was pretty damn important. I'm also done talking anymore about this subject. Did I also say that I was the only one that did research on this? No reply needed, nor wanted.
 
Last edited:

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
@heapsreal

Hey dude, how bout we have a couple brews together sometime eh? Start practicing on your marathon swimming skillis. It may take you awhile to swim all the way over here..but hey..I'll even buy you that beer for all your effort LOL
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,097
Location
australia (brisbane)
@heapsreal

Hey dude, how bout we have a couple brews together sometime eh? Start practicing on your marathon swimming skillis. It may take you awhile to swim all the way over here..but hey..I'll even buy you that beer for all your effort LOL

Halfway meet with one of those floating tables they use in pools??
 

Rand56

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Myrtle Beach, SC
has to be someone to toe us out??

Well first, we'll need more beers, and we can get some parachuting waitress to bring us another beer. I wonder if she has enough balance to give us a table dance on that floating table. Then the coast guard would need to be called "2 drunk guys in water along with a parachuting waitress need to be rescued"
 

Eeyore

Senior Member
Messages
595
Statins are very useful drugs. They do save lives. This is very well documented.

They may also be overprescribed, and I'm not sure I (or most cardiologists) in the US agree with the new aggressive cholesterol lowering guidelines.

That's largely because the efficacy of statins has little to nothing to do with the cholesterol lowering effect, but rather the anti-inflammatory effect. This is why other cholesterol lowering drugs to not show similar reductions in cardio mortality.

Statins are one of the most widely use classes of drugs, and are well tolerated by the vast majority of those who take them, and those who don't tolerate them well almost always have transient side effects, not major permanent damage.

Look at how many die of heart disease and how many die of statin side effects - it's not even close. For people at high risk, statins do make sense. That's not everyone - and I don't think they should put crestor in the water - but heapsreal has done his homework and wisely taken his doctor's advice. He's also followed the science, which shows that crestor does lower his risk of heart disease, and chosen to do what he can to reduce it. It's easy to get paralyzed by fear of one side effect and ignore the risks of doing nothing.

I do believe that everyone taking statins should take high dose q10, as q10 synthesis is also blocked by statins - and one of the main reasons people get side effects. It is easily added back in by supplementation.

Even Dr. Sinatra, who generally is not pro-statin and has published a number of mass-market books on the subject, says he uses statins in some patients. He is also quick to point out though that getting your cholesterol down to X with a statin is not as beneficial as via diet/exercise, but it does help. In high risk patients, sometimes you need both. Based on heapsreal's description, he's got some unlucky cholesterol genetics in his family and he probably cannot normalize risk with diet/exercise, and as you all know, ME patients are limited on the exercise front, and sometimes even the diet front! (That's no excuse to ever eat the worst heart-unhealthy foods though, like trans fats.)
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@heapsreal

Around March 2011, I started meds for diabetes. Around the same time, I noticed that I was fatiguing more quickly and easily during exercise eg cycling, weights at the gym etc.

I hope you're not on Metformin. It depletes B12, folic acid, and CoQ10. You can find out what nutrients your various medications deplete by googling the name of your med and then "depletes".
 

Eeyore

Senior Member
Messages
595
@Rand56 - See my sig. I am not a doctor. Not sure where you got the idea that I might be one. As such, don't make medical decisions based on things I say alone, although it never hurts to take information you pick up and bring it up with your doctor - doctors unfortunately are under a great deal of time pressure, and no one knows everything. My own PCP is always interested in hearing something new that she doesn't know, is the first to admit she doesn't have all the answers, and isn't threatened by it - which is of the reasons I really like her. I don't expect my docs to know everything. I expect them to listen to patients and when they don't know, to find the info if it can be found.