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Has anyone tried Rich's protocol and had success?

Avalon

Senior Member
Messages
112
Location
Oxford, England
@Avalon - There is an older poll here. Click on "View Results." Rich updated his protocol about a month before he passed away in 2012.

Also a poll on Freddd's protocol here. Freddd updated his protocol since then to include various co-factors, etc.


There were folks who did both Rich's and Freddd's protocol, as well as various other supplements and treatments. Freddd's protocol tends toward the extremely active (end product) versions of folate and B12, so I would say it would likely be a better bet for effectiveness, but you are at a much higher risk for overmethylating and also hypokalemia, which can potentially be fatal.


Genetics can be a factor on which supplements you take. If I could do it all over again, I would probably do a 23andme test to save money on determining which supplements are best for me. I've spent hundreds on supps, but genetic testing is only $99. It can help guide your treatment.

Alternatively, you can just try basic "low and slow" methylation. It depends on how deep you want to get.

@Alea Ishikawa, thank you! I will check out his poll, I 100% agree that if you do Freddd's protocol you have to be very careful, there are some sick people out there with hypotension and kidney issues over and above CFS, FM
I have already done 23andme, if you look at my signature you can see my snps, I have just ordered a genova Nutreval test that should give me some insight as to my functioning.
 

Avalon

Senior Member
Messages
112
Location
Oxford, England
Hi @Avalon

Rich's approach is the only one to have been tested on patients albeit through a small study as such it's possibly the only methylation approach that I wouldn't define as a philosophy. You see, he didn't sell expensive supplements nor complicated tests or consultations and his interest not being commercial was directed at demystifying methylation and make it available in all its simplicity to as many PWMEs as possible.

Regarding your question about success, in the link you can have a look at the results of the study which speaks for itself
http://www.mecfs-vic.org.au/sites/w...Article-2009VanKonynenburg-TrtMethylStudy.pdf
In my own case, Rich's SMP did just what it did in that study, it raised glutathione pretty quickly but it may take up to a year to normalise the overall methylation process.
The only problem I had with the protocol was the multi he suggested (the Yasko multi) which I replaced with a cheaper multimineral only because I was sensitive to some of the nutrients and vitamins in the original one. It still worked fine for me.

The one thing I learnt is that it is important to test, I mean functionally test (rather than testing genes/SNps), your methylation before and after.
That is either through the methylation panel suggested by Rich or at least those parameters that can tell you whether methylation is being normalised.
This is because from the tests you may find that your glutathione is now OK and methylation is fixed but your overall health still has problems.
This information is crucial because it tells you that there are other things that are contributing to your illness and you have to address those separately rather than infer that the protocol isn't working or isn't doing much.

This is how Rich himself put it:
"Even though the methylation cycle function can be brought closer to normal and glutathione can be raised in most PWMEs wth methylation treatment, the etiologies and accumulated toxins and/or pathogens in most cases will need to be treated directly and specifically as well. The particular ones differ from one case to another, but the possibilities of which I'm currently aware, based on experience with cases, are as follows: Lyme disease and coinfections; biotoxin illness, especially due to water-damage in buildings; high body burdens of toxic metals, especially mercury; entrenched viral and possibly retroviral infections that are able to hide from the immune system, such as by producing nagalase; HPU (hemopyrolactamuria, also called KPU or kryptopyroluria); serious gut dysbiosis; and deficiencies of essential nutrients."

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylation-study-and-c4a.14633/

Best wishes.

Excellent post, you are a star!! I will check his study, are you still following Rich's protocol or some form it? I note that you took a multi mineral supplement, what about the B vitamins, how did you supplement those?
What positive effects did you notice and/or any side effects? I seemed to be sensitive to mfolate, what is you take on folinic acid?

I 100% agree in regard to functional tests, to that end I have ordered Genova Nutreval test and have a blood draw next Tuesday. Interesting article from Rich.

One of the major components for me is sleep, with out good quality sleep we cannot function, its imperative that sleep hygiene regular sleep and wake times,mild sleep apnea, Gerd, LPR, nasal congestion, blue light, bed comfort, RLS, PLMS, Fibromyalgia and finally nocturnal hypoglycemia mostly driven by low cortisol (if you are prone, be careful with certain vitamins, hormones that help drive metabolic rate too quickly driving down blood sugar overnight, individual supplements e.g Vitamin D, Chromium GTF, are rectified in order to attain quality sleep.
 
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xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
@Avalon
thank you -- yes I started again the protocol a few weeks ago after more than a year break. In terms of positive effects it gave me more resilience physically and could again tolerate alcohol. No side effects. These past few weeks I'm not sure but I have started from a relatively higher baseline healthwise as I'm better than I used to be at that time.
I used to take Thorne Basic B complex which has mfolate only (it used to be 50/50 folinic and mfolate), perque B12 and some phoschol. That's all I'm taking now but every other day and no multi.
Regarding the sensitivities, in my own case I realised they were connected in someway to bad bacteria in the gut. And so was sleep to some extent. I used to be sensitive to folinic acid and other nutrients but it all went away while I was on maf314, the probiotic gcmaf. That of resetting the gut flora it's an issue that may be worth looking into.
 

Avalon

Senior Member
Messages
112
Location
Oxford, England
Thanks, this Yasko multivitamin looks really interesting!

I discovered I am very sensitive to folate, just need a little boost to get my methylation cycle cranking.

This one only has 25mcg per pill. Sounds like it was made with someone like me in mind.

Do you think you will try Yasko' multivit? be very interested to see how you go with it.