Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
http://phoenixrising.me/research-2/the-brain-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-mecfs/choline-on-the-brain-a-guide-to-choline-in-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-by-cort-johnson-aug-2005
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Has anyone tried cocaine for their ME/CFS

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Captain John, Apr 19, 2018.

  1. Captain John

    Captain John

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    I have been searching and I´ve come across some studies on cocaine and its effect on NK-cells. Just a small amount of cocaine caused an almost fourfold increase in NK cell activity. I read about a doctor who had a
    hypothesis, that cocain could restart the system in ME/CFS patients. I would really like your thougts on this, and hear if you know anybody who have tried this.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC424504/pdf/jcinvest00127-0343.pdf
     
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  2. JES

    JES Senior Member

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    I wasn't aware of this interesting effect. However, you can raise both NK cell activity and numbers by several supplements that come with none of the addicting side effects of cocaine, for example a special rice bran according to this study increased NK cell activity 2-3X. Mushroom extracts (reishi, shiitake) and inosine are other excellent and safe supplements for increasing NK cells.
     
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  3. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    this is the dumbest idea ever. Before I got me/cfs I was sort of a drug nerd. In that I wasn't formally studying pharmacology but dabbling in drugs and learning about toxicity, binding affinities, etc...

    First of all, stimulants rarely help people with ME/CFS, since we are fatigued because of a basic metabolic dysfunction, so increasing dopamine/catecholamines won't help and will just cause more metabolic stress.

    Second of all, cocaine is way, way more cardiotoxic than commonly prescribed stimulants. ME/CFS patients already are prediisposed to cardiac issues to an extent. Cocaine is insanely cardiotoxic thru several mechanisms--sodium channel blocking causing arrhythmias, coronary vasospasms, increased clotting, dramatic blood pressure rise, catecholamine release, etc.

    I don't know if you're really asking for advice, but I'm mainly saying this for anyone that thinks this would be a good idea.

    Not to mention cocaine has more toxic cuts than almost any other drug... stuff like levimasole (veterinary dewormer)
     
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  4. Kenshin

    Kenshin Senior Member

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  5. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Coca is an interesting thing.

    But like I mentioned, cocaine is very toxic even without adulterants. And coca contains cocaine. It also, however, contains several other compounds and nutrients which may help the cocaine be less toxic. It's hard to know how it would affect someone with cfs.
     
  6. Captain John

    Captain John

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    I am not looking for a temporary supplement, I am looking for the cure. If you read the publication I posted, you can read, that cocain impair the activity of B cells and especially their ability to produce antibodies. Its the same function Rituximab has. I was in contact with a guy who said he cured his CFS with cocain, but when my questions got to intense I lost him. Their was a blog on the internet about a guy who tried everything very systematic. The last 2 things were MDMA, which did'nt work and then coke which worked, but now I can´t find that blog anymore. I am loosing the tracks and I need a qualified guess (besides my own), that this will work before I try it (and I will). There is also the theory about kickstarting the brain from safemode into normal: modehttp://drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Reprogramming_the_brain_in_CFS/ME

    I truly believe that this is the best shot at getting cured. Ratalin and drugs in that catagory seems to work, but they does not have the same abillities as cocain. Furthermore, cocain is the only thing that you can´t seem to find anyone who have tried and said i did´nt work!
     
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  7. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    If you don't want to listen to advice, you're free too. Even if cocaine was a cure, which is insanely unlikely, it's toxic enough that you'd be pretty much fucked if you had to take it frequently. Like you would cure your CFS and then have heart disease. What's the point in replacing one disease with another? I'm sure there are lots of things that can have the same effect on B cells, I really don't know why you'd fixate on this one substance lol.
     
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  8. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Nevertheless, since I get that I am probably not gonna dissuade you, you might as well go ahead and post results here. Maybe track vitals and do blood work before and after.
     
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  9. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Oh ok, I finally read the paper you posted and this whole idea is even more stupid. The paper tests whether cocaine increases NK cell activity because it increases catecholamines, (adrenaline/stress hormones) which are already known to increase NK cell activity. Man, there must be like hundreds of other ways to increase catecholamines without doing cocaine. You could take adrenal supplements, corticosteroids, other stimulants, exercise (yes I know it's not healthy for people wtih cfs but neither is this). I don't necessarily recommend these things, there must be ways to increase NK cell activity without increasing catecholamines, but those are all better ways to do it than cocaine.

    If you want to increase NK cell activity via increasing catecholamines, there's no reason that you have to do cocaine. seems like you're just fixated on doing cocaine.
     
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  10. hellytheelephant

    hellytheelephant Senior Member

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    I had very bad altitude sickness in South America, and a local recommended I tried coca tea- it completely cured it. I have to say that the symptoms of altitude sickness are not unlike ME symptoms.....

    But, frankly to consider taking cocaine, seems like adding another problem on top of the huge pile of shite we are already living with.
     
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  11. Captain John

    Captain John

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    Thank you! That was what I was looking for :) Skeptisism!
    What you mention is exactly the problem I have with the experiment. But if 0.6 mg cocaine can 4 double NK so fast, I see possibillities in it. I'm very tired of living and I do not want to live on a 1000 supplements, and this is the most likely to work. Do you have any other suggestions?
     
  12. Captain John

    Captain John

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    Thanks for reply. I will defenatly consider that. I was going to try a very low dose for a maximum of 5 days to see the effect. If it does not have any effect I will stop, but 0.6mg is nothing and should almost not be felt mentally.
     
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  13. BadBadBear

    BadBadBear Senior Member

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    Have you read the withdrawl symptoms? "The symptoms of cocaine withdrawal (also known as comedown or crash) range from moderate to severe: dysphoria, depression, anxiety, psychological and physical weakness, pain, and compulsive cravings."

    Can you stay high enough all the time to avoid the withdrawl symptoms and yet still avoid heart and brain damage? Can you avoid addiction?

    Sometimes I'm jealous of the meth addicts I know when they go through the early phase and look really thin and have all that endless energy. Then their teeth fall out and they look 100 years old. Then because of addiction their lives get ruined. If you decide to try this experiment, have a good honest look at the downsides before you jump in. Talk to an addict or two.
     
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  14. Sushi

    Sushi Moderation Resource Albuquerque

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    You are assuming that low NK cell activity is at the root of ME/CFS. That has not been shown to be true though it may well be a downstream effect of the illness.
     
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  15. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    It sure as sh*t didn't help my (still then gradually increasing) ME/CFS, a few years ago.

    I agree with others in that I very seriously doubt that it's "the most likely to work". Do coke if you want, I guess, but don't expect a cure. Do, however, expect to get very wired & tired, have issues with anxiety, sleeplessness and increased PEM/PEM that is more delayed than usual. Be really careful who you get it from and what other drugs/fillers might be cut with, and how those might affect your system.
     
  16. MEWarrior

    MEWarrior

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    It is my understanding coca leaf only works at altitude. At least, that was my experience.
     
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  17. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    no, I've chewed coca (with baking soda to help extract the active ingredient) at sea level and gotten quite the effect
     
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  18. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    Yeah, dude, I understand being desperate. But if you are willing to take risks there are probably like 100 things more likely to work than cocaine. Like trying small doses of thyroid hormones (cynomel/cynoplus), pregnenolone, IV NAD+, megadoses of B6, niacinamide, or thiamine. DCA, alpha-lipoic acid... IVIG, emodin, sytrinol, phenylbutyrate

    Don't waste your money on cocaine. If you really want to try some drastic experimental cures look a little harder. There are things people have discussed in the forum that are more likely to help than cocaine
     
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  19. TiredBill

    TiredBill Senior Member

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    I witnessed so many lives of people I cared about being ruined in the mid 70s-early 80s, including that of a dear sweet kid who lived next door to me who died after a little post-final exam partying, to think this is a good idea. Poor Francis was 20 years old and I watched in horror as his dead body was carried away.

    Cocaine is a very bad drug.

    Bill
     
  20. debored13

    debored13 Senior Member

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    to rephrase--I understand being so desperate one would try something risky. But if you are willing to take risks, take calculated risks. Cocaine is not a calculated risk, you are latching on to one study and a handful of anecdotes. You are considering taking a powerful cardiotoxin based on poor evidence... this is not a good cost/benefit ratio
     
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