Grains and sugars precipitate neuroinflammation?

[pamojja]

And I haven't really seen anything on when one should not attempt a ketogenic diet.

Google can help: https://www.google.at/search?q=when...x-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=SxPJWumgIO-A8QevwYagBA

 

[bjl218]

Google can help: https://www.google.at/search?q=when one should not attempt a ketogenic diet&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=SxPJWumgIO-A8QevwYagBA

Umm...yeah now why didn't I think of that ? Now if Google could only tell me which type I am... Although having said that, I suspect that my low B vitamin status had something to do with it. However there's no way for me to know whether my low B vitamins caused the problems I experienced when I went into ketosis or whether ketosis caused my B vitamins to go low.

 

[pamojja]

However there's no way for me to know whether my low B vitamins caused the problems I experienced when I went into ketosis or whether ketosis caused my B vitamins to go low.

Would guess both.

 

[Sundancer]

And I haven't really seen anything on when one should not attempt a ketogenic diet.

I do agree, however, I tried it and became so fatigued that I was not able to care for myself anymore. Living alone, when I cannot get out of bed anymore I do have a big problem.

so I keep it at low grain until I feel I can try again

 

[scisolver]

I suggest you try the carnivore diet. Lots of people are doing it for auto-immune diseases and for general health. There is even a thread on here of people doing it. There are lots of videos talking about it too. I suggest you just stick to beef and water. The beef needs to be fatty around 60 to 80 percent calories from fat. So, 80/20 hamburgers for example.

I'm doing it and I'm in the second month. Digestion takes time. Dr. Sara Myhill the ME/CFS doctor in UK recommends a diet very similar to this. I'm also taking bile, protease and lipase pancreatic digestive support because often the pancreas is not working in ME/CFS.

If you are going to do anything diet related I suggest you do this. Also, don't worry about this being something special. It turns out this is actually human food and what were are supposed to be eating based on our physiology. Human food is the megafauna, but it went extinct over 10,000 years ago when the ice age ended. So, the closest thing now is fatty cuts of beef. People say it takes about 3 months to adapt to the diet.

 

[ebethc]

I'm doing it and I'm in the second month. Digestion takes time. Dr. Sara Myhill the ME/CFS doctor in UK recommends a diet very similar to this. I'm also taking bile, protease and lipase pancreatic digestive support because often the pancreas is not working in ME/CFS.

can you tell me more about this? the best supplement I've taken is wobenzym, pancreatic enzymes... it reduces my pain more than all the other things I've tried combined.. i've wondered if there is a pancreatic problem, but this is the first time I've seen it mentioned on this forum..

thanks

 

[scisolver]

can you tell me more about this? the best supplement I've taken is wobenzym, pancreatic enzymes... it reduces my pain more than all the other things I've tried combined.. i've wondered if there is a pancreatic problem, but this is the first time I've seen it mentioned on this forum..

thanks

I've come across multiple suspicious comments relating to ME/CFS and the pancreas.

On this forum here I saw this:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/pancreas-gallbladder-and-cfs.611/
"According to Dr. Byron Hyde's CFS study, pancreatic failure is the #3 cause of death in CFS"

After almost ten years on OTC enzymes, plus being told I had gastroenteritis over and over in the ER when tests came back normal, my doctor ran a special test to prove I had gallstones called an EGD with biliary microscopy. It cost as much as the gallbladder surgery that I had immediately, when the test proved I was full of tiny stones. These stones had been backing up in the ducts for years, and when I ate and my pancreas made enzymes, the enzymes could not get out and ate my pancreas instead. Since the enzymes could not get out, I took more and more OTC enzymes. After the gallbladder was removed, my symptoms improved for awhile, but then came back full force, which is when I was diagnosed with severe exocrine pancreatic insufficiency,a condition that takes an average of 20% off your lifespan, even when properly treated. The symptoms of the condition are pretty gross, so I won't list them here. If anyone has a similar history to what I just described and a strong stomach, PM me and I will describe what would be happening if you had this problem.​

Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency also causes symptoms similar to ME/CFS. Additionally, if the gallbladder is not working properly it can damage the pancreas as it gets backed up. There is also an autoimmune disease called primary biliary cholangitis which is said to be very similar to ME/CFS:

I've thought of getting a GI doctor to do some exocrine pancreatic stool function test or something, but it is so much work to get countless tests while working full time and the doctors are not cooperative and I have to find a doctor to do the testing I want.

https://www.prohealth.com/library/d...-cirrhosis-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-21239

Additionally, with PBC the autoimmune disease blocks the enzyme which allows pyruvate to be converted into energy in the mitochondria. So, I certainly thought that PBC varients could be a subset of ME/CFS.

Also, as Dr. Sara Myhill says that the pancreas is simply not working right that you can heal it by going on the diet, but may not be able to absorb the food without the pancreas working right, so that is why you need to take the pancreatic enzymes (and probably the bile too which comes with some).

So, I can't say exactly how or why the pancreas might be related to ME/CFS, just that there are a lot of suspicious intersections around that organ and the gallbladder and the liver. So, I would keep that in mind when testing and doing treatments.

Additionally, when my condition started I began to have a stinging sensation in my upper right abdomen and I've had a constant stinging sensation there ever since. Sometimes I feel it on the left too. I don't know if that could be my liver/gallbladder/pancreas hurting. All testing has been negative, but I'm sure I haven't had every possible test there is related to those organs and probably never will.

Also keep in mind if the pancreas isn't able to digest proteins and carbohydrates correctly that you won't get the right amino acids you need and also you can have intestinal problems.

Dr. Sara Myhill's page on this: http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Pancreatic_exocrine_function

 

[Captain John]

I'm also taking bile, protease and lipase pancreatic digestive support because often the pancreas is not working in ME/CFS.

What brands do you take? I have spent hours finding good brands and the perfect combination, but find it difficult to assess which ones are good ...

 

[Captain John]

I suggest you try the carnivore diet. Lots of people are doing it for auto-immune diseases and for general health. There is even a thread on here of people doing it. There are lots of videos talking about it too. I suggest you just stick to beef and water. The beef needs to be fatty around 60 to 80 percent calories from fat. So, 80/20 hamburgers for example.

Sorry, but what about vitamins and fibers from vegetables?

 

[ebethc]

Also, as Dr. Sara Myhill says that the pancreas is simply not working right that you can heal it by going on the diet, but may not be able to absorb the food without the pancreas working right, so that is why you need to take the pancreatic enzymes (and probably the bile too which comes with some).

this is all really interesting, and I definitely feel like it relates to me, so thank you.

Which diet are you referring to? Dr Myhill talks about the Stone Age diet a lot.. is that it?

 

[Bjjpapi]

Sorry, but what about vitamins and fibers from vegetables?

From what I understand, advocates of the carnivore way of eating say that we can get all essential vitamins, minerals and amino acids from an all meat diet (this includes broths and organ meats).

When it comes to fiber it seems it’s role may be overrated. Most people consuming just meat and water acknowledge that bowel movements usually decrease in number but bowel movement difficulty doesn’t increase (no constipation).

 

[Bjjpapi]

I've come across multiple suspicious comments relating to ME/CFS and the pancreas.

On this forum here I saw this:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/pancreas-gallbladder-and-cfs.611/
"According to Dr. Byron Hyde's CFS study, pancreatic failure is the #3 cause of death in CFS"

After almost ten years on OTC enzymes, plus being told I had gastroenteritis over and over in the ER when tests came back normal, my doctor ran a special test to prove I had gallstones called an EGD with biliary microscopy. It cost as much as the gallbladder surgery that I had immediately, when the test proved I was full of tiny stones. These stones had been backing up in the ducts for years, and when I ate and my pancreas made enzymes, the enzymes could not get out and ate my pancreas instead. Since the enzymes could not get out, I took more and more OTC enzymes. After the gallbladder was removed, my symptoms improved for awhile, but then came back full force, which is when I was diagnosed with severe exocrine pancreatic insufficiency,a condition that takes an average of 20% off your lifespan, even when properly treated. The symptoms of the condition are pretty gross, so I won't list them here. If anyone has a similar history to what I just described and a strong stomach, PM me and I will describe what would be happening if you had this problem.​

Exocrine pancreatic insufficiency also causes symptoms similar to ME/CFS. Additionally, if the gallbladder is not working properly it can damage the pancreas as it gets backed up. There is also an autoimmune disease called primary biliary cholangitis which is said to be very similar to ME/CFS:

I've thought of getting a GI doctor to do some exocrine pancreatic stool function test or something, but it is so much work to get countless tests while working full time and the doctors are not cooperative and I have to find a doctor to do the testing I want.

https://www.prohealth.com/library/d...-cirrhosis-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-21239

Additionally, with PBC the autoimmune disease blocks the enzyme which allows pyruvate to be converted into energy in the mitochondria. So, I certainly thought that PBC varients could be a subset of ME/CFS.

Also, as Dr. Sara Myhill says that the pancreas is simply not working right that you can heal it by going on the diet, but may not be able to absorb the food without the pancreas working right, so that is why you need to take the pancreatic enzymes (and probably the bile too which comes with some).

So, I can't say exactly how or why the pancreas might be related to ME/CFS, just that there are a lot of suspicious intersections around that organ and the gallbladder and the liver. So, I would keep that in mind when testing and doing treatments.

Additionally, when my condition started I began to have a stinging sensation in my upper right abdomen and I've had a constant stinging sensation there ever since. Sometimes I feel it on the left too. I don't know if that could be my liver/gallbladder/pancreas hurting. All testing has been negative, but I'm sure I haven't had every possible test there is related to those organs and probably never will.

Also keep in mind if the pancreas isn't able to digest proteins and carbohydrates correctly that you won't get the right amino acids you need and also you can have intestinal problems.

Dr. Sara Myhill's page on this: http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Pancreatic_exocrine_function

Thanks for this comment! Gives me another avenue to explore (PBC). I have “benign” low alkaline phosphatase and have had elevated liver enzymes on multiple occasions. I’ve been told I have non alcoholic fatty liver after sonogram due to upper right quadrant pain.

I would hate to think a problem with my liver/gall bladder/pancreas may have been overlooked due to low alkaline phosphatase (it should be elevated in people with cholestasis).

 

[Bjjpapi]

I’m personally trying the carnivore diet at the moment. I feel it helps some with inflammation. What I dislike is that keeping adequate levels of electrolytes is much harder, possibly due to ketosis. While doing the ketogenic diet I experienced severe fatigue whenever I used the sauna, probably due to inadequate electrolytes. This didn’t happen when not on the ketogenic or carnivore diet.

I do believe a lot of inflammation has to do with the microbiome, genetics and diet. Certain food sensitivities may alleviate with certain diets because our guts might become less permeable on these diets. The number and type of bacterial colonies in our guts also changes based on the foods we eat which would explain why we might become more sensitive to certain foods when doing certain diets, I.e. we eliminated (or reduced) the bacteria (through starvation) that used to digest certain foods, and now other bacteria have replaced them.

I’m sure if one kept at it and continued to eat a food one became sensitive to WHILE trying something like the carnivore diet the food sensitivity might go away, probably due to rebalancing of microbiome for that food

 

[bertiedog]

The microbes utilize the carb. and produce metabolites that may be inflammatory: lactic acid, biogenic amines, histamines, and, nitric oxide

I realise this is an old post but if you are still around do you know if its specific bacteria that produce metabolites that produce biogenic amines, histamines and nitric oxide because these would probably account for my resistant migraines. I know that I also have a Candida issue (Tropicalis came up on GI Effects test) and I guess this would also produce certain metabolites.

Thanks

Pam

 

[hamsterman]

Hmmm. This is interesting to me. I am noticing issues with high-fiber... and feeling pretty bad for a around a day or so. It could just be my cronh's... but there may be something else... since it seems to trigger a hypersensitivity... along with an elevated body temperature.

 

[scisolver]

Hmmm. This is interesting to me. I am noticing issues with high-fiber... and feeling pretty bad for a around a day or so. It could just be my cronh's... but there may be something else... since it seems to trigger a hypersensitivity... along with an elevated body temperature.

If you have an inflammatory bowl disease then I think you should not be eating plants.

Humans are designed to live off of a carnivorous diet. Today that means eating just beef and water since the mega fauna went extinct.

Dr. Sara Myhill recommends something very similar to this. There is also another treatment called the Salisbury Treatment which was designed by Dr. Salisbury.

Another Doctor by the name of Elma Stuart wrote the later book "What I Must Do To Get Well And How To Keep So" in the late 1800's. You can read the PDF for free.
http://justmeat.co/docs/what-must-i-do-to-get-well-by-elma-stuart.pdf

Elma actually used the treatment of Dr. Salisbury to cure herself and suffered from what we would call today ME/CFS.

I am going to try this treatment. I have been eating fatty beef and often large meals for over two months and am still having problems. I believe I will switch to the Salisbury treatment which is only beef and water but is different.

So far as I have gathered upon reading the book to page 71:
-Only Lean Ground beef should be consumed. (presuming to be eye round roast which is bought and ground at home or bought at the store pre-ground simply as 93% lean ground beef which either way should costs about $6.00 a pound at retail. Only buy the one without additives if you buy pre-ground beef. Check the ingredients for "natural flavors" added, it may cost more. This lean meat also ensures that the meat can be fully digsted as the small bowel is not needed as much due to the lean meat being digested in the stomach and the fat relying on the small bowel more. This is where the yeasty overgrowth has occured from the non-carnivorous diet.
-Meals should be small and three times a day to make sure the food can be totally digested. Starting around 1 to 6 ounces per meal.
-Rest and pacing should be taken
-Warm water must be drunk. Never drink cold water either. Drinking must be 4 pints/times a day 90 minutes before meals and 3 hours after meals.
-The meat must be cooked with care ( I believe she is describing not to overcook the meat)

 

[hamsterman]

If you have an inflammatory bowl disease then I think you should not be eating plants.

Humans are designed to live off of a carnivorous diet. Today that means eating just beef and water since the mega fauna went extinct.

Dr. Sara Myhill recommends something very similar to this. There is also another treatment called the Salisbury Treatment which was designed by Dr. Salisbury.

Another Doctor by the name of Elma Stuart wrote the later book "What I Must Do To Get Well And How To Keep So" in the late 1800's. You can read the PDF for free.
http://justmeat.co/docs/what-must-i-do-to-get-well-by-elma-stuart.pdf

Elma actually used the treatment of Dr. Salisbury to cure herself and suffered from what we would call today ME/CFS.

I am going to try this treatment. I have been eating fatty beef and often large meals for over two months and am still having problems. I believe I will switch to the Salisbury treatment which is only beef and water but is different.

So far as I have gathered upon reading the book to page 71:
-Only Lean Ground beef should be consumed. (presuming to be eye round roast which is bought and ground at home or bought at the store pre-ground simply as 93% lean ground beef which either way should costs about $6.00 a pound at retail. Only buy the one without additives if you buy pre-ground beef. Check the ingredients for "natural flavors" added, it may cost more. This lean meat also ensures that the meat can be fully digsted as the small bowel is not needed as much due to the lean meat being digested in the stomach and the fat relying on the small bowel more. This is where the yeasty overgrowth has occured from the non-carnivorous diet.
-Meals should be small and three times a day to make sure the food can be totally digested. Starting around 1 to 6 ounces per meal.
-Rest and pacing should be taken
-Warm water must be drunk. Never drink cold water either. Drinking must be 4 pints/times a day 90 minutes before meals and 3 hours after meals.
-The meat must be cooked with care ( I believe she is describing not to overcook the meat)

You are definitely right about staying away from raw roughage and only eating small meals. I just get careless at times... and man do I suffer.

But I wasn't aware of the cold water being a problem. What is the reason for that?