Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Free Copper Calculation

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by Tigger, Oct 16, 2017.

  1. Tigger

    Tigger

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    Hi all,

    Does my calculation of free copper below look accurate to anyone?

    Copper Calculations:
    Ceruloplasmin: 14,000
    Copper Serum: 75
    Zinc: 54
    1. Calculate the Copper:Zinc ratio. Reference range is 0.7 to 1.0. This is a ratio, not ug/dL: 75/54 = 1.38
    2. Calculate the amount of Copper bound in Ceruloplasmin: 14,000 x 0.003 = 42
    3. Calculate the amount of Copper not bound in Ceruloplasmin. Reference range is 5 to 15ug/dL: 75 - 42 = 33 ug/dL
    4. Calculate the percentage of Non-Ceruloplasmin-Bound Copper. Reference range is 5% to 20%: 33 / 75 x 100 = 44%

    @alicec @Thewonders92
     
  2. alicec

    alicec Senior Member

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    looks ok
     
  3. Tigger

    Tigger

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    Thanks for the response. Obviously that high of a percentage would be indicative of needing to take action, correct?
     
  4. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Tigger,

    If you use units throughout, and reference the numbers that are not test results (e.g., where did the 0.003 come from?) others of this forum might be better able to understand what you're doing, and therefore whether the numbers look OK. I find that doing so points out my mistakes to myself before showing them to anyone.

    I have not heard of any assessment of copper being accurate/reliable enough to warrant corrective action. When I did my research a few years ago, the state of the art was not there yet. So, not having seen what's changed since 2014, it's not obvious to me that the results indicate taking action. Is the risk of trying to correct it without professional guidance is worth it? It wasn't then. But of course, you decide for yourself.
     
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  5. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Does anyone have a reference where this 3% Copper bound to Ceruloplasmin comes from?

    Would say, depends. Had tested serum and whole blood copper and zinc for years only, but no professional guidance available. And I could correct it somewhat by comparing these labs and effects from different amounts supplemented.
     
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  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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    Please tell more
     
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  7. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Zinc has mostly been at the lowest end of normal. Copper in the higher half of normal. So I increased zinc gradually, till I got headache from about 60 mg/d. Therefore increased Copper a bit to about 2 mg/d, which immediately eased the headache. However, after some time that way, serum copper shoot above normal and zinc below. Lowering copper to below 1 mg/d corrected it again. Zinc still at lowest end of normal, copper above the middle. Whole blood test reflected these serum results. Want to add that I also get about 13 mg/d zinc and 4.2 mg/d of copper from diet alone.
     
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  8. Tigger

    Tigger

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    Sorry for forgetting the units. I was being lazy and copy and pasted from a document I had saved. Here's a much clearer post.

    Here's the link where I found the instructions to theoretically calculate free copper: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/pyroluria-treatment-advice.34150/

    Test Results:
    Component
    Ceruloplasmin

    Standard Range
    15-52 mg/dL

    Your Value
    14
    ---------------------
    Component
    Copper

    Standard Range
    0.75 - 1.45 mcg/mL

    Your Value
    0.75
    ---------------------
    Component
    Zinc

    Standard Range
    0.66 - 1.10 mcg/mL

    Your Value

    0.54

    Calculations you can do following blood tests for Serum or Plasma Zinc, Copper and Ceruloplasmin.

    First, we need to get the three measurements into the same units, preferably ug/dL (micrograms per decilitre):

    If your results were given in g/L multiply by 100,000 to get ug/dL.

    If your results were given in mg/dL, multiply by 1,000 to get ug/dL.

    If your results were given in mg/L multiply by 100 to get ug/dL.

    If your results were given in ug/L, divide by 10 to get ug/dL.

    If your results were given in ng/mL, divide by 10 to get ug/dL.


    1) Zinc

    If your results were given in umol/L, divide by 0.153 to get ug/dL
    ...54

    2) Copper

    If your results were given in umol/L, divide by 0.157 to get ug/dL
    ...75

    3) Ceruloplasmin

    Results are usually given in mg/dL or g/L. Convert to ug/dL as above notes.
    ...14,000

    Now calculate the ratios, etc.


    4) Calculate the Copper:Zinc ratio, divide Copper (2) by Zinc (1),

    Reference range is 0.7 to 1.0. (This is a ratio, not ug/dL.)
    75 / 54 = 1.39

    5) Calculate the amount of Copper bound in Ceruloplasmin,

    Ceruloplasmin (3) in ug/dL multiplied by 0.003. (Ceruloplasmin is 0.3% Copper by weight)

    14,000 x 0.003 = 42

    6) Calculate the amount of Copper not bound in Ceruloplasmin,

    Total Copper (2) in ug/dL minus Copper bound to Ceruloplasmin (5).

    Reference range is 5 to 15ug/dL
    75 - 42 = 33

    7) Calculate the percentage of Non-Ceruloplasmin-Bound Copper:

    Non-Ceruloplasmin-Bound Copper (6) divided by total Copper (2), then multiplied by 100.

    Reference range is 5% to 20%.

    33 / 75 x 100 = 44%
    Any confirmation on whether or not these calculations are accurate or not would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    @Sherpa @ahmo @pamojja @Critterina
     
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  9. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Thanks for typing it out. Just got my first Ceruloplasmin result at 27 mg/dl (15-30 range). Let's give this formula a try. Cu came back at 120 µg/dl (65 - 165), Zinc at 70 µg/dl (73-127).

    120 / 70 = 1,71

    27,000 x 0.003 = 81

    120 - 81 = 39

    39 / 120 x 100 = 32%

    Now I know as much as before having a ceruloplasmin test: my copper to zinc ratio is still completely off. :bang-head:

    From that other thread:

    Oh well. During the last 9 years got in average 13mg/d Zinc from diet and 45 mg/d from supplements. This year leading up to my first ceruloplasmin test 63 mg/d of Zinc from supplements alone.

    Maybe it's time to say goodby to my beloved above 80% cocoa chocolates. :(


    PS: though my off Cu/Zn ratio of 1.7 has been much worse at 3.1.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  10. Tigger

    Tigger

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    Wow. Fairly disheartening. Do you know of anyone who has had success with balancing Cu/Zn ratios? It seems most of what I read are stories of extreme struggle without much success.
     
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  11. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

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    apparently mainstream medicine recognises that zinc will not remove copper from the liver... this is based on what i read about treatment guidelines for Wilson's disease.
    l suspect a copper toxicity and possibly deficiency problem.

    I feel better on a lot of zinc...but I think it's nonsense that zinc supplementation will sort out a problem if there is one. I think we need a copper chelator.

    Apparently Judy Mikovits just said at a presentation in London that our copper transporters are blocked. that's all i know about that... dont' ask me for specifics.

    I got a massive copper fecal metals test pull once after a biofilm protocol.

    I see a Walsh trained doctor and she hasn't been able to help much, so you know, good luck with that.
     
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  12. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

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  13. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Half that bad. It's only a lab marker, which at least has already improved (form a 3.1 to 1.7 ratio). Beside that, no obviously felt bad effects. On the contrary, my all-out war against PAD, COPD and T2D since 9 years has been highly successful. 'Only' ME/CFS remaining, and even here the main debilitating symptom of prolonged PEM after exertion, I learned to avoid most of the time. (Well, for that having to quit a part-time job.. my real problem at the moment is rather financial)

    Never to give up seems written in my DNA. It takes time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017

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