International ME/CFS and FM Awareness Day Is On May 12, 2018
Thomas Hennessy, Jr., selected May 12th to be our international awareness day back in 1992. He knew that May 12th had also been the birthday of Florence Nightingale. She was the English army nurse who helped to found the Red Cross as well as the first school of nursing in the world.
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Found this reply on my blog: "PLEASE HELP! Someone out there who understands methylation far better

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by sregan, Feb 24, 2015.

  1. sregan

    sregan Senior Member

    Reply posted by @Anders to an entry on my blog. Needs to be here. Please tag @Anders on any replies or if a moderator can change the owner of this thread to Anders please.

    PLEASE HELP! Someone out there who understands methylation far better than we do, must be able to figure out the terrible problem we are having:

    Our son has suffered from depression for years, when it went from moderate to severe, it began with an entire year of Chronic Fatigue, after several back to back viruses. The chronic fatigue gradually got better, but the severe depression did not. Fast forward years down the road. After trying every antidepressant out there with no success, our so discovered he was homozygous for mthfr a1298c.

    Since then, he has tried various strengths of methylfolate to try to achieve remission. He can not tolerate the higher doses of methylfolate, and settled on 2 mg. He took a break from everything at one point, and then reintroduced methylfolate at 2mg, and this time he took it with methylcobalamin at 2.4mg. Within 3 days, he had an amazing (almost miraculous response), which we thought was the answer. His response lasted about a week and then fizzled out and he became depressed again. He continued to take the MTHF and the MTH-CBL for awhile but nothing. He went up on the MTHF and MTH-Cbl gradually but nothing. Then he decided to take a short break. After about 5 days, he reintroduced the original 2mg & and 2.4mg doses of mthf and mth-cbl, and again got the wonderful robust response which had him again feeling normal for the second time in years, only to fizzle out 5 or 6 days later. He has been able to replicate this response several more times, but each time it lasts about a week and then fizzles.

    How can we help him achieve a sustained response? Has anyone seen or heard of this kind of thing before? There has to be a methylation solution. Please help us!!! Does he need way more MB12? Does he need a different kind of B12? Maybe he needs less B12 or no B12? Is he taking too much mthf? Is there something else going on with his methylation? Is this a methyl-trap?
  2. PeterPositive

    PeterPositive Senior Member

    My 2c... methylation is not just about B12 and folate, there's at least another 8-10 cofactors: B2, B3, B6, zinc, magnesium, adeno-B12, carnitine, vit C... and some optionals such as TMG and SAM-e etc..

    It's a freakin' puzzle and it takes time to experiment and introduce one thing at a time and see how it goes.

    There are some good resources in this forum, the first that springs to mind is @ahmo signature which contains links to detailed documents on Freddd's protocol and more.

    @Anders I'd suggest you search for "ahmo" in the main search bar (top right corner) so that you can access here signature from there.

  3. Milford


    You might want to check out Dr Yasko's Simplified Protocol. She stresses the need to introduce supplements in an ordered fashion, first making sure that Lithium and Glutamate are in balance. then adding in the RIGHT kind of B12, and FINALLY adding in Folate. her All-In-One multi provides the essential Co-Factors needed to support methylation.
    You can order the hair test to check Lithium from her office.... no doctors order is required and she will comment on the results. Takes about 2 weeks and the results are emailed to you. $85 USD
  4. nandixon

    nandixon Senior Member

    If depression is the problem without CFS/ME, then some possibilities to perhaps try are:

    (A) Only use a minimal, fixed amount of B12 (say125-250 mcg max) and try different amounts of methylfolate. (For primary depression, I'd think you'd want the methylfolate to go towards the sparing effect it has on BH4, and not so much to methylation effects. So you might not want to use large amounts of B12.)

    (B) Try different amounts of SAM-e, on an empty stomach usually in the morning. (Taking SAM-e orally is much more effective - and has a different effect - than trying to generate it via the methylation cycle, e.g., by taking large amounts of methylfolate together with large amounts of B12.)

    (C) Try (A) + (B).

    (D) Retry the most effective/best tolerated antidepressant(s) you previously tried in combination with (A) above (i.e., folate augmentation therapy).

    (E) Try tianeptine, a prescription antidepressant used in Europe and elsewhere outside the US. It has a completely different way of working than any antidepressant available in the US. (It's legally available as a bulk powder in the US. Usual dosing is 12.5 mg three times a day for depression. Development of tolerance can be a problem with tianeptine.)

    (F) As a last resort, try an MAOI if you haven't tried that class already. This includes (arguably) the most powerful prescription antidepressant, Nardil. (For the latter, he'll have to avoid certain foods if taking the typical doses, and may have to use caffeine if the Nardil causes tiredness, which it usually does.)

    These are only suggestions/guesses I might try myself. I'm not a medical doctor, and I'm sure other people will have suggestions as well. Good luck!
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015

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