for the guys, hormone restoration

[heapsreal]

Anyone with cfs/me had improvement after going through all the tests and correcting the different hormones that were out of balance. I tried dhea a few times and get a boost for a short while then nothing really. another doc i see tested me for all the right hormones concerning males, my total testosterone was very good, in the upper 1/4 of range, free testosterone was below the normal reference range, E2 were high and dhea was low, 6 weeks later and after taking 50mg dhea all that happened was my E2 went higher, dhea went higher, free testosterone drop more, mmm confused. I then stopped dhea.

So i went back to my cfs doc who immediately put me on arimidex to lower E2 by stopping testosterone aromitizing to E2. I have had blood tests done before arimidex and will have another 6 weeks after starting treatment. My doc seems interested in getting my low dhea levels up as they are good for immune system and are generally low in most people with chronic illnesses. So i take that if my E2 are well controlled by arimidex that he will add dhea, also hopefully arimidex has an effect through lowered E2 on increasing free testosterone and overall hormones become more balance which helps improve health/immune system and i start to look healthier and lose some weight and have the energy to through some weights around again.

thoughts and opinions welcome.

 

[liverock]

Increasing your free testosterone through DHEA might not be a good thing if you have XMRV. Its supposed to replicate faster with increased androgen levels.

 

[Otis]

I want to echo what liverock said.

Less than a week after starting testosterone.supplementation I was thrown into a horrible tail-spin from which I have not recovered. I didn't know what may be happening (XMRV replication) but despite some extra energy from the testosterone I knew it was making me feel much worse overall. PM if you want details. I didn't make the connection until reading about androgen causing XMRV replication but it clicked into place at that point. So in my case I was adding fuel to the fire.

I would say proceed with caution. I've seen at least one DHEA thread too, you may want to search for that.

 

[heapsreal]

Hormones and xmrv still confuses me, but these are my thoughts so chime in with opinions is u dont agree etc. It is my believe that cortisol is the hormone that could cause all the problems as cortisol lowers immune function. Other hormones like dhea and testosterone oppose cortisol by strengthening the immune system and having all hormones in correct balance has to be good for us then the dodgey hormone profile i have now with low dhea which helps oppose cortisol, and elevated estrogen which can increase our risk of certain cancers as well as prostate enlargement, erectile problems, and muck up our lipid profile and increase risk ot type 2 diabetes. If our hormones are in the right balance i cant see how it can make us worse, if they are up and down in the ranges i cant see that being any good for health. One other thing i have thought about is prostate cancer that they have found xmrv in, is that high estrogen levels have alot to do with this type of cancer as well as prostate hypertrophy, controlling estrogen and improving testosterone is shown to help al this. Higher testosterone levels(within range) have also been shown to reduce risk of cardiovascular disease in men. All the above pertains to men and hormones, women and hormones is a whole nother storey.

cheers!!!

 

[heapsreal]

hi otis, do you take medication for estrogen control, i have heard alot of guys go on test therapy and after a few weeks estrogen levels are through the roof and not controlled, this can increase fatigue, make joints ach etc. alot of men dont realise that increasing testosterone increases estrogen and too much estrogen can lower shbg which then lower free testosterone which is the beneficial stuff we are after.

At this stage i wont be on testosterone therapy, im on arimidex to control high estrogen and see how my bloods look in my next testing and maybe add dhea and then retest. Im hoping the arimidex will lower estrogen specifically E2, when E2 is lowered it increases free testosterone. I just cant see how having your hormones all within normal range can be worse for you when there are alot higher risks of cancers and heart disease associated with hormones when they are out of whack.

cheers!!!

I want to echo what liverock said.

Less than a week after starting testosterone.supplementation I was thrown into a horrible tail-spin from which I have not recovered. I didn't know what may be happening (XMRV replication) but despite some extra energy from the testosterone I knew it was making me feel much worse overall. PM if you want details. I didn't make the connection until reading about androgen causing XMRV replication but it clicked into place at that point. So in my case I was adding fuel to the fire.

I would say proceed with caution. I've seen at least one DHEA thread too, you may want to search for that.

 

[Otis]

Thanks for the info in estrogen, I'll have to research that angle and see how well it fits.

In my case I had a fever kick in less than a week after starting testosterone. I did not make a connection at the time. Other symptoms kicked up too but seemed too track with my temp pretty closely. My T numbers went into the normal range but I'll have to go back and see if it was total or free T, or both, we were tracking. It was only after reading about androgens feeding XMRV replication that it made sense to me that I may have been feeding something that was biting back.

 

[heapsreal]

i would take a guess and say your E2 which is estrodiol is high, they are finding in alot of men that its E2 causing alot of problems, where in the past it was testosterone coping the blame for things like increased cancer risks and heart disease etc, they are now finding that high testosterone and free testosterone with E2 at the right level can improve all these risk factors. Also have to remember that u need some estrogen because if it go's to low it can be just as worse going to high, so its hard to find a doc who understands all this stuff, heres a link u might find helpful that i got off someone here awhile a go, read the stickies which are useful, http://www.musclechatroom.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2

cheers!!!

 

[August59]

This sure describes my last 6 months. I thought a compounding pharmacy had messed up my testosterone since my total testosterone levels dropped from approx. 400 down to 91 and additionally TSH went from approx. 2 up to 7.7. I was sweating like hell all day and fatigue was up and down plus started having severe pain in both of my SI joints.

Changed my testosterone back to Androgel (same dosage) and increased Synthroid up to 1.0 mcg from .5 mcg and about 3 to 4 weeks my blood pressure was 170 / 100, eyes bulging and my facial skin (forehead, nose and around eyes) was getting so oily I had wash my face 3 times a day. The oil on my skin, when wiped off with a cotton pad would have a yellow tint.

I have dropped my thyroid back to .5 and cut my testosterone down a little over the last 4 weeks, but oily skin and pain in SI joints is unreal. Sweating has diminished some what.

I'm due for re-testing and am going to ask that he check E2 and others besides just Total T and TSH.
I am curious as to what effects that all of you felt was due to E2 and what the effects were?

 

[heapsreal]

im only on arimidex at the moment, but im hoping with E2 under control i will lose weight easier as well as feel more energetic and have that 'tiger'in the tank again, like when i was 16, plus will add the dhea which then will hopefully not elevate E2 into the high levels..
High E2 can reduced your free T levels so what your using t replacement wise is just turning into E. With something controling E, this helps reduce SHBG(another hormone) binding to free Test, then we get higher free test levels and supposedly feel flasher then a rat with a gold tooth. MY understanding on injections is u want a minimum of 1 a week, twice a week makes testosterone levels more stable, eg 100mg of test a week is a normal dose for testosterone therapy but alot of docs inject 250mg every 3 weeks, maybe 2 weeks if your luck. But its recomended atleast one 100mg shot a week of testosterone enthate(sustenon not good for this type of drug to use in this regime) per week or even better is 50mg twice a week, this helps avoids test levels going up and down which reduces E2 as well. I dont hhave alot of personal experience but have been lurking on a few male hrt sites and ganing infor for awhile. I have left the hrt thing on the back burner until i get a few other cfs things sorted. The time has come to get it sorted.

hope it works out for you,

cheers!!!