Review: 'Through the Shadowlands’ describes Julie Rehmeyer's ME/CFS Odyssey
I should note at the outset that this review is based on an audio version of the galleys and the epilogue from the finished work. Julie Rehmeyer sent me the final version as a PDF, but for some reason my text to voice software (Kurzweil) had issues with it. I understand that it is...
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Dr. Klinghardt: "The role of retroviruses in chronic illness – a clinician’s perspective"

Discussion in 'Other Health News and Research' started by xcell, Aug 19, 2018.

  1. xcell

    xcell

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  2. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    I would love to know what his success rate is of improving people's health who are diagnosed with ME/CFS and have been sick for a long time. I don't think he ever publishes his hypotheses?

    Pam
     
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  3. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    I spent $1000,s seeing him over a 2 year period and saw no improvement. I think if u are mild to moderate he may be able to help...but he uses tons of supplements$$$$$$$$.
     
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  4. consuegra

    consuegra Senior Member

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    At least, Klinghardt writes up some of his ideas and we can read them. His recent treatment ideas are not that far-fetched or beyond affordability. His suggestion of Baicalin is a good one. Also it seems that the Cistus Incanus tea might be worth trying.

    Chris
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  5. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Senior Member

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    Here is a podcast where Klinghardt discusses retroviruses:

    http://betterhealthguy.com/episode78
     
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  6. Sidny

    Sidny

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    Did he do any anti retro viral treatments on you? It seems that he is alluding to this being his new way of treating he's been having more success with.
     
  7. Sidny

    Sidny

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    Dr. Klinghardt makes some incredible claims about the effectiveness of cistus on hiv in that interview with better health guy. He said there was a study where when patients failed treatment for hiv with anti retro viral presceiption drugs that 100 percent of them responded to cistus extracts.

    If that's true I think it goes to show how badly we're being screwed by the pharmaceutical companies and there are many natural plant compounds that are just as effective if not more so than what is widely prescribed.
     
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  8. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    Most of the antiviral studies Dr Klinghardt is citing are in vitro ones. Even though a herb or supplement may have potent effects in vitro, in most cases, in vivo it will usually have negligible antiviral effects. So the antiretroviral herbs he is suggesting may not be of any use when taken orally.

    The exception is the hypericin study, which was done both in vitro and in vivo in mice, and showed antiviral efficacy in mice against murine leukemia virus (Friend virus).
     
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  9. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    I did not do any "mainstrem" medical drugs with Dr. K. All alternative, herbal, supplements, homeopathy, some weird things that I can't even remember. He had a whole hocus pocus muscle (imho) testing system to see if a treatment was good for you. At the time of I was being treated by him ARV's were not being talked about at all in terms of ME/CFS....pre Dr. Mikovitz days.

    I did do ARV's post Mikovitz and they made me even sicker. I think they damaged my mitochondria even more.....my theory, I think somewhat supported by some of Dr. Davis' ideas. I am a severe case. (became severe after taking ARV's: Isentress and Viread)
     
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  10. Learner1

    Learner1 Forum Support Assistant

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    I live near Dr. Klinghardt and have been getting great care, much of it covered by insurance, without needing to see him. He's very expensive and some of what he does is great, while some of it is on the bleeding edge.... There is excellent evidence-based functional medicine here in the Seattle area.

    As for supplemenents, yes, they cost money, and if chosen based on one's own needs, can be worth every penny spent. I've run into too many doctors who are either ignorant of what they do or don't want to propose them to patients due to the cost.

    As a patient, I want to know about anything that can help, then decide for myself if its worth the cost. I wouldn't have made the improvements I have without paying for expensive supplements that were chosen for me based on my lab work.
     
  11. Sidny

    Sidny

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    Great so herbs aren't worth a damn in vivo and pharmaceuticals mess up our mitochondria and make us worse. No wonder so many in our community commit suicide. We really need a call to action here I mean if there are proven technologies like DRACO and the T-cell therapy Viralym-m that vitually eradicate viral infections at the root of our illnesses why are so many still suffering?

    Have you found relief in anything so far @Navid?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  12. Sidny

    Sidny

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    Has anyone found any in vivo studies about cistus? Dr klinghardt made a claim in the interview that it worked on hiv patients when pharmaceutical drugs failed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  13. Navid

    Navid Senior Member

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    @Sidny

    I unfortunately have found no relief anywhere; and I've tried and seen it all. I am patiently waiting for Dr. Davis to crack the code and make us whole again. I believe the roots of the illness are not understood and there are no treatments that help the severely ill at this point. This once again is just my own humble opinion, based on 14+ years of illness, treatments, tests and Dr's.

    I used to try anything and everything to get well....since my set back with ARV's, I will try nothing new until there is medical science that shows what is actually wrong with me, and what and why a certain treatment will help me to improve.

    I've been set back and down too many times....I am now gun shy and protective of the little bit of life I have left in me. Sorry to be a downer, but I do remain positive about Dr. Davis and his team.

    What are DRACO and Viralym-m. Who is working with these things?
     
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  14. Markus83

    Markus83

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    Dr. K. is a well known doctor who originally comes from Germany (Freiburg), near were I live. I have seen some lectures which he gave in Freiburg. I wouldn't spent my money on him, although some therapeutic approaches are not so bad (for example some herbal treatments, which he - apparently - has copied from Stephen Buhner). He always mentions that he is a researcher. So I started to look for his publications in a scientific database (pubmed), just to see what his research looks like. What I found? Nothing!

    Nonethless, this guy is charming and seems to be friendly; maybe he believes in what he is doing, but for the patient this makes no difference in the end.
     
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  15. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Stop the harm. Start the research and treatment.

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    Can you please share a bit more about the ARV protocol you followed?

    Did you start Isentress and Viread at the same time?

    Did you start 'low and slow'? And how long did you take them?

    Did the ARVs cause a temporary or permanent worsening of ME?
     
  16. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    Maybe it's not black or white. I would think that some of what he advocates does work but he could have learned this from other more highly qualified doctors/researchers in the complimentary field. Many of these were qualified physicians who became unhappy with the way traditional medicine looks at illness so learned about a different approach involving the main reasons as to why people get sick in the first place.

    Pam
     
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  17. Markus83

    Markus83

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    Pam, Dr. K. has originally a good education, he is not like a naturopath. He has a training as a neurologist from the university hospital in Freiburg (as far as I know) and has even studied psychology besides medicine. Maybe he really seeks to find causes of illness, but ended up in esoterics (especially his testing called psycho-kinesiology). What I find critical is that there are very expensive supplements designed by him and I don't know if he participates on the sales. And others here stated that he takes a lot of money for consulting. I don't know if this is true, but in my opinion a trustworthy MD should not take more than necessary. Look at Stephen Buhner (who actually is not a MD but a herbalist) who has never made much money, but focusses on really helping people.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2018
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  18. bertiedog

    bertiedog Senior Member

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    @Markus83 I agree with you completely. I am very fed up with any sort of doctor who makes huge sums of money out of people who are desperate to get better. It segregates people into those who can afford to look for treatment and those who just cannot because of their own personal circumstances.

    Pam
     
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  19. pamojja

    pamojja Senior Member

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    Why that wouldn't apply to any trade? That way he would only get patients (of all trades) who likewise take more than necessary for their trade. Likewise begets itself. And surely he couldn't continue that way if his rich clients wouldn't appreciate it.

    On the other hand, each is one's own master. And by living not above my means it was possible to take not more in exchange than I needed. I especially abhor such high-income occupations like speculation. Since it's individualized profits are always the loss of the many. But again, only for myself.

    I'm also not a friend of name-calling due to opinion. In the past physicians might be called 'quacks', because they used mercury (quicksilver) as treatment. Today that term would probably best apply best to conventional dentists. To each their own.
     
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  20. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I would not say supplements are not worth a damn: two of the medications that had the most useful effects for my ME/CFS and accompanying conditions are supplements: N-acetyl-glucosamine (NAG) for anxiety, and high dose selenium for ME/CFS. However, it's much more of a trial and error situation with supplements; here are no tests that could have told me that NAG would be very effective for my generalized anxiety disorder. But there are a number of supplements that have been shown in studies to have mildly beneficial effects for ME/CFS.

    There's little evidence that drugs damage mitochondria, except perhaps for a few drugs like metformin, tetracycline and minocycline. And even in these cases, you are only likely to experience adverse mitochondrial effects from this if you have a mitochondrial disease. I started a thread on this subject here. Mitochondria give birth to new mitochondria every few days to a few weeks, so all your mitochondria get replaced by new ones after a few weeks.

    Thus unless there is damage to the mitochondrial DNA (which would then be passed down to new mitochondria), your mitochondria will always regenerate themselves in pristine from. Note that fluoroquinolone antibiotics can cause a "selective loss of mitochondrial DNA", see this paper; so that's one to watch out for.

    Also the supplement berberine, found in the herb barberry, has been shown to have toxic effects on mitochondria.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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