Dr. Courtney Craig on Lessons Learned from Tracking Sleep

[Sasha]

I did worry about changing my avitar - within a community of ME/CFS challenged brains I could easily lose hundreds, nay thousands, of my fans. hehe

If the uprising gets too great, I may need to (happily) return to my cow.

Is it just me, or does the chicken look angry and the cow a bit nervous?

 

[SOC]

I think it's using "have" to mean "give birth to".

Okay, that would be inordinately (or not so inordinately) upsetting. I can see how I might have a cow if I 'had' a cow.

It appears to be a rather more distressingly graphic version of 'spitting nails'.

This is not really a visual I need as I head off to bed. I guess I only have myself to blame if I have nightmares about giving birth to full-grown cattle.

 

[eafw]

Anyone else using sleep tracking apps with success?

I'm currently using a free app called "sleep meister" which is basic but does the job, get the same sort of graphs showing deep and light cycles. It correlates well to how I feel I've slept, and can see how quality of sleep varies over days and weeks which can be matched to other factors.

I use it to monitor daytime sleep too and find that if I feel sleep deprived and need to take an afternoon nap it will show a nice 90 min cycle with a good deep phase - this does not (as I already knew but as many supposed experts don't when they insist we shouldn't sleep in the day) interfere with the next nights sleep, rather it is catching up on missed deep cycles from the night before, and it shows that quite nicely.

 

[Scarecrow]

Very easy to use @SDSue. The 90 minute cycles showed up beautifully but I only went into deep sleep twice. I was heading there on one other occasion but came back up.

One limitation of the app is that, as it's a motion sensor, you need to bear in mind what you were doing in bed. (Where am I going with this?) I was watching TV on timer - a bad habit I'd like to drop - and the app shows that I went out like a light straight into deep sleep. In fact I was wide awake but motionless.

I really wish I had this a couple of weeks ago because my sleep is consistently better now since taking a probiotic. It would have been nice to be able to compare the before and after.

I did get the heart rate monitor which is also neat. Got a bit flustered when I was prompted to measure it first thing but that would settle down as you get used to doing it.

No unicorn. Nor any other mythical creature. Not even a harpy.

 

[SDSue]

I'm currently using a free app called "sleep meister" which is basic but does the job, get the same sort of graphs showing deep and light cycles. It correlates well to how I feel I've slept, and can see how quality of sleep varies over days and weeks which can be matched to other factors.

I use it to monitor daytime sleep too and find that if I feel sleep deprived and need to take an afternoon nap it will show a nice 90 min cycle with a good deep phase - this does not (as I already knew but as many supposed experts don't when they insist we shouldn't sleep in the day) interfere with the next nights sleep, rather it is catching up on missed deep cycles from the night before, and it shows that quite nicely.

Nice! I knew there had to be others available. It’s really quite amazing that they work as well as they do.

I also use mine for daytime naps, but never get beyond light sleep. Interesting, because there are many days that I cannot stay awake during the day and would have thought I was in deep sleep those times. My naps don’t interfere with that night’s sleep either. “Sleep hygiene” is as crazy as the rest of psych babble.

One limitation of the app is that, as it's a motion sensor, you need to bear in mind what you were doing in bed. (Where am I going with this?) I was watching TV on timer - a bad habit I'd like to drop - and the app shows that I went out like a light straight into deep sleep. In fact I was wide awake but motionless.

lol. It is easy, isn’t it? So glad it’s working for you. When you get a few weeks under your belt you'll start to see some trends! (Did you catch that if you turn your phone sideways you get access to all the graphs of “notes” you’ve made and their trends over time?)

I watch Netflix at night on my computer so I must move around more in doing so. The app catches all that motion and it pinpoints when I turn it off - my graph nosedives into deep sleep pretty quickly. I’d like to thank my pharmaceutical cache for that.

Yesterday I skipped my nap and tried to get to bed at midnight rather than my usual 1:20 - 2 am. It was a disaster - I ended up with no deep sleep all night and more time awake than asleep. There’s apparently a good reason that we sleep when we do.

I did get the heart rate monitor which is also neat. Got a bit flustered when I was prompted to measure it first thing but that would settle down as you get used to doing it.

I hope you’ll let me know what kind of data you get from the Hr monitor. Did you use the alarm to wake you at a certain time, and then it prompt you to take HR?

 

[Snow Leopard]

Blimey. That's an endorsement!

Does the mermaid come with the app, or does it cost extra?

 

[Scarecrow]

“Sleep hygiene” is as crazy as the rest of psych babble.

Too true

Did you catch that if you turn your phone sideways you get access to all the graphs of “notes” you’ve made and their trends over time?)

Good to know. I wondered what had happened to my note. I can see now that this will show up when there's a minimum of 5 night's data.

I hope you’ll let me know what kind of data you get from the Hr monitor.

I think it might be a while before anything useful comes out of it but will do.

Did you use the alarm to wake you at a certain time, and then it prompt you to take HR?

Just so. There's probably no rush to measure the rate. I just wasn't thinking clearly.

 

[eafw]

My naps don’t interfere with that night’s sleep either. “Sleep hygiene” is as crazy as the rest of psych babble.

It was one of the worst pieces of advice I was given in the early years of being ill - to maintain "good sleep hygiene", ie not sleep in the day. Obviously there's basics about looking after the body clock and it's not good to stay awake all night on caffeine and computer games, but daytime sleeps can be restorative when you are ill and we need as much decent rest as we can get.

 

[SOC]

It was one of the worst pieces of advice I was given in the early years of being ill - to maintain "good sleep hygiene", ie not sleep in the day. Obviously there's basics about looking after the body clock and it's not good to stay awake all night on caffeine and computer games, but daytime sleeps can be restorative when you are ill and we need as much decent rest as we can get.

I suspect that the whole sleep hygiene story is another one of those medical rules of thumb that applies to a subset of healthy people, but gets applied to everyone -- far beyond the existing supporting data. It's no mystery that guidance that applies to healthy people can be completely wrong for people who are ill. It's not even difficult to comprehend, but too many medical people don't even try to think. They just apply their little nuggets of wisdom without understanding where they come from or what the limitations are.

I full well understand that people who get into bad habits, or perhaps who sleep during the day due to apathy or depression, might not need the sleep and therefore could be disrupting a healthy sleep pattern by napping during the day. I don't see why it should be assumed that everyone who naps during the day falls into that group.

OTOH, I wonder if not sleeping/resting during the day is, in fact, the 'natural' human pattern. Sure, daytime napping doesn't fit the 21st century office-worker lifestyle, but is it really true that primitive people in hot climates didn't sleep during the hottest part of the day? Isn't there a lunch and nap routine in some farming cultures? Yes, it appears natural that the longest part of our sleep is during the night, but why did we decide that means no sleeping at all during the day, especially for people who consume a lot of energy during that time?

 

[SDSue]

OTOH, I wonder if not sleeping/resting during the day is, in fact, the 'natural' human pattern. Sure, daytime napping doesn't fit the 21st century office-worker lifestyle, but is it really true that primitive people in hot climates didn't sleep during the hottest part of the day? Isn't there a lunch and nap routine in some farming cultures? Yes, it appears natural that the longest part of our sleep is during the night, but why did we decide that means no sleeping at all during the day, especially for people who consume a lot of energy during that time?

I remember an experiment I read about long long ago. (I remember it because I dreamed of being a subject!)

They took healthy volunteers and put each alone in an artificial underground environment, with no sun, no clocks, no communication, and no other reminders of light-dark/day-night cycles. The subjects slept when they felt like sleeping, ate when they felt like eating, read books when they felt like reading, etc. (no computers in those days)

They found that, without exception, people had 2 sleep cycles per 25 hours (not a typo; people migrated to a 25 hour day rather than a 24 hour day) - one long of 7-8 hours and one short of 2-4 hours. Perhaps those cultures with afternoon naps are getting it right. Looks like the psychos might be wrong again. Big surprise there.

 

[Sushi]

I remember an experiment I read about long long ago. (I remember it because I dreamed of being a subject!)

I remember that experiment too. And actually, in near history before electricity, many people followed some type of double sleep period.

Sushi

 

[eafw]

OTOH, I wonder if not sleeping/resting during the day is, in fact, the 'natural' human pattern.

There is a natural afternoon dip that's been known for a long time, makes it even more puzzling when the Docs suggest we go against it.

http://www.nytimes.com/1989/09/12/science/feeling-sleepy-an-urge-to-nap-is-built-in.html

 

[*GG*]

I remember that experiment too. And actually, in near history before electricity, many people followed some type of double sleep period.

Sushi

I recall reading that people would wake in the night and have sex, was good for reproduction and sleep

GG

 

[SickOfSickness]

I recall reading that people would wake in the night and have sex, was good for reproduction and sleep

I read they would get up and visit their neighbors in the middle of the night too. That would be much less lonely if others were awake at night.

Is it just me, or does the chicken look angry and the cow a bit nervous?

The chicken looks very nervous to me. The cow just looks blank

 

[Sasha]

The chicken looks very nervous to me. The cow just looks blank

It's just one big inkblot test, then...

 

[SDSue]

The chicken looks very nervous to me. The cow just looks blank

No no. Not nervous. Full of spunk, energy, and youthful bewilderment. He’s just glad to be here.

Wait. What? Hold up a second.

Now you’ve gone and done it. My chicken is mad.

 

[Sasha]

Holy shit!

 

[SDSue]

Holy shit!

Hehe.

 

[SOC]

No no. Not nervous. Full of spunk, energy, and youthful bewilderment. He’s just glad to be here.

Wait. What? Hold up a second.

Now you’ve gone and done it. My chicken is mad.



View attachment 11332

 

[SDSue]

Is it just me, or does the chicken look angry and the cow a bit nervous?

The chicken looks very nervous to me. The cow just looks blank

Careful. My chicken has also been known to dine on kittens, daisies, and butterflies.