Dr. Cheney Warns Against Long-term Use of SSRIs and Stimulants

[Sallysblooms]

It would be wonderful if all doctors knew as much as integrative MDs. A real shame when they know nothing about testing and supplements. I hope there will be more and more, I have gotten better only with integrative MD's. Reg. ones are clueless.

 

[heapsreal]

Excellent point. I went to a very high-priced Park Avenue psychiatrist and he said the fact that my cortisol was at 5% of normal didn't matter at all and that if you aren't in the ICU with Addison's there's no way low cortisol short of that could have an effect on my health. He said my symptoms were all due to ADD; i had never had any doctor mention (or diagnose me with) ADD and i had just first met him 20 minutes before! Then he took out ICD 9CM and showed me neurasthenia under 'neurosis' and said i had a mental disorder! he gave me a ritalin script and said that should get me better.

Thats terrible Just, 20 minutes and the diagnose u on possible behavioural charcteristics. I know i feel anxious and cant think properly when im around doctors other then my cfs doc, as we sort of know that they have this thing in the back of their heads that cfs is a psych condition. When asking my doc yesterday about a certain test etc, he said it was more to do with mood and depressive symptoms and i dont fit that category, wow , now non cfs docs wouldnt say that and would diagnose me within a 10 min consult. My doc has know me for several years and knows cfs/me can get down or sick and tired of being sick and tired, so he understands that its not the driving force behind cfs/me. It was nice to hear that from him.

I think the longer cfs/me people are sick the more we just dont trust or like the psychiatric profession.

 

[ePat]

The video on the first page of this thread "Marketing of Madness" is a Scientology-piece. Didn't anyone notice ??????

 

[Dreambirdie]

I think the longer cfs/me people are sick the more we just dont trust or like the psychiatric profession.

Or the medical profession.

I rarely ever am willing to see an MD of any kind. There is one, who works in my naturopath's office, and (surprise!) she is actually human, so I have been willing to consult with her. But upon doing so I discovered that she really knows much less than my naturopath.

The education doctors receive is so heavily supplemented with propaganda from the pharmaceutical industry, that it's almost impossible to talk to them about things that don't pertain to their BOOK LEARNING and their PHARMA INDOCTRINATION. Also, there is the fact that most doctors rarely ever read research papers, so they are approx. 10-15 years behind te current studies. (There is actually a research paper on that subject somewhere on the internet.)

Unfortunately, with this disease, we are mostly on our own. Luckily we have each other to learn from.

 

[alex3619]

Hi Dreambirdie, I read a report several years ago (a national survey, dont recall details) that said that doctors in the USA were on average 17 years out of date, and that the top students out of the best medical students were already five years out of date when they got their degree - it takes that long for medical knowledge to be added to the curricula. Bye, Alex

 

[Sallysblooms]

I am sure that most doctors in all countries are like that, they don't keep learning and they depend on what they learn in school. Thankfully,here, there are many integrative and complimentary doctors that are up to date and always learning.

 

[Tia]

I've been on Zoloft since 1998 and not noticing anything special. The only thing is when I switched to sertralin that I got muscle jerks while falling asleep. But that's a sideeffect from the sertraline.

 

[HowToEscape?]

"Summer 2001 UPDATE"

Is this from 2001 or 2010, or partly both?

The effects vary considerably from person to person. Much like going outside during a thurderstorm in Florida, you *probably* wont't get hit by lightening. Then if it hits you, hey, you should have known better.*

* I recall leaving a beach in FL 20 min before 4 people in the warm, pleasant water were hit by nearby lightening. Don't know what the long term effects on the survivors were; I do know that the deceased had no long term health issues to deal with.
Sure, drugs which mess with little-undrestood low level brain chemistry are perfectly safe, except for effects studies took pains not to look for, any one of which probably won't hit you.
Probably.

Either way, tip of the hat to Doc Cheney for publishing and stating this. Prozac and family showed signs of toxicity 15 years ago, it was know to <some> patients who compared notes. Raise the issue publicly thought and you would have been called a kook. Now watch for Eli Lilly's delaying tactics to avoid dealing with the injured parties until they're too old for any remedy to be effective, and thus too old to cost money.

 

[Alesh]

Shame on CFS mythology

I hate the CFS myth so much. Show me two patients on these boards who suffer from the same thing. There is no such thing as "CFS". Perhaps "Chronic Disease Syndrome" would be even better name to group under. I hate the idiots exploiting this CFS myth for denigrating the antidepressants. For me SSRIs are the only and most effective treatment modality. If it weren't for these idiots-so called experts on "CFS" I would start antidepressants sooner and I could be healthy now. And no, I have never had depression or any ohter mental disease.

 

[heapsreal]

I hate the CFS myth so much. Show me two patients on these boards who suffer from the same thing. There is no such thing as "CFS". Perhaps "Chronic Disease Syndrome" would be even better name to group under. I hate the idiots exploiting this CFS myth for denigrating the antidepressants. For me SSRIs are the only and most effective treatment modality. If it weren't for these idiots-so called experts on "CFS" I would start antidepressants sooner and I could be healthy now. And no, I have never had depression or any ohter mental disease.

CFS isnt a mental health disease, its a neurological and immune disease, some may have depression as a secondary symptom. If antidepressants were a cure for cfs then this board wouldnt exist. Many of use have tried antidepressants and have got very little out of it.

 

[Dreambirdie]

CFS isnt a mental health disease, its a neurological and immune disease, some may have depression as a secondary symptom. If antidepressants were a cure for cfs then this board wouldnt exist. Many of use have tried antidepressants and have got very little out of it.

Yes. I agree.

The "CFS MYTH" I am most familiar with is the one that espouses that a neuro-immune disease can be treated with toxic psychiatric medications.

Koo-koo!

 

[barbc56]

Anti depressants are often used to treat pain conditions as pain may deplete your brain's ability to optimize the production of the right balance of Serotoninnorepinephrine I know several people who take them for migraine, arthrisis as well as other pain conditions.

I learned this the hard way. I thought I was on the same dose of an SSRI I had previously been on but was on half.(long story), I slowly had such an increase in pain, that I ended up in the ER, only to find out I had temporarily been on the wrong dose. Back on the SSRI, my pain eventually decreased.

Ultram works kind of in the same way so you have to be careful about taking both. On the right combination the two are more effective than taking one or the other alone. This is true at least for the SRIs but would assume the same about the SNRI's. SNRIs are more effective for pain relief but unfortuntely, I can't take them.

I am so lucky that I am now with a very good psychiatrist who knows me as well as all the ins and outs of ADs. My personal opinion is that PCPs should not routinely give out ADs unless they have extra training. My PCP also has this training so in that way I am very lucky indeed.

But it's all relative as before this DD I had no pain issues. :>)

 

[Tia]

Yes. I agree.

The "CFS MYTH" I am most familiar with is the one that espouses that a neuro-immune disease can be treated with toxic psychiatric medications.

Koo-koo!

Exactly. I'm depressed and suffer from anxiety as a secondary symptom of the ME. My overactive immunsystem pulls my central nervous system high so I get depression and anxiety as a symptom. But i have to sy thank god for these antidepressants because I couldn't cope without them. They have really helped me. Only sideeffect I get from them are heartburn -sometimes- and when falling alseep my muscles jerk alot. That's it and I can live with such a small thing when I don't have to deal with crying myself through the days and having panicattacks 24/7. So I'm all for antidepressants but only if it's an absolute must. Not something you'd choose directly. (I don't like taking pills.)

But ME is definitely not a mental disorder because I was born this tired and with musclepains so it's definitely not mental.

 

[HowToEscape?]

Well, the body's a strange thing, and what works to ameliorate some malfunction may not be what "should" work.

The disease causes inflamation and other detrimental effects on the brain. For the most part we don't have a good remedy for the disease itself - though there have been exceptions - so we must attempt to treat the symptoms without aggravating the disease. I believe the brain malfunctions in ME can force depression. Depression is also a common problem with any chronic, disabling disease and is no trivial matter; it is a dangerous disease on its own.

Antidepressants help some people with one or more of the diseases which have been tossed in the M.E bucket, how much they help and whether something else would do just as well needs attention. Wellbutrin, for example, seems to give <some> people more energy.
Some antidepressants can also be treacherous brain damaging agents... the practice of prescribing them like candy and not monitoring for harm is/was criminal, as were other aspects of how SSRIs were promoted, rather like modern snake oil.

Medicines are often dangerous. So are diseases. SSRIs have a particularly insidious risk which was artfully concealed, but if you want to take only substances which are always harmless to everyone you must rule out most prescriptions, herbs, vitamins and supplements.

Yes. I agree.

The "CFS MYTH" I am most familiar with is the one that espouses that a neuro-immune disease can be treated with toxic psychiatric medications.

Koo-koo!

 

[dannybex]

STUDY: Serotonin lowers Brain ATP

This study might also help explain why SSRI's typically don't help us at all, and/or make us a lot worse:

Gen Pharmacol 1994 Oct;25(6):1257-1262.

Serotonin-induced decrease in brain ATP, stimulation of brain anaerobic glycolysis and elevation of plasma hemoglobin; the protective action of calmodulin antagonists.

Koren-Schwartzer N, Chen-Zion M, Ben-Porat H, Beitner R Department of Life Sciences, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat Gan, Israel.

1. Injection of serotonin (5-hydroxytryptamine) to rats, induced a dramatic fall in brain ATP level, accompanied by an increase in P(i). Concomitant to these changes, the activity of cytosolic phosphofructokinase, the rate-limiting enzyme of glycolysis, was significantly enhanced. Stimulation of anaerobic glycolysis was also reflected by a marked increase in lactate content in brain.

 

[Sallysblooms]

Wow. That would make sense. We need MORE ATP. I take it under my tongue. I get seratonin from 5HTP.

 

[taniaaust1]

A big thanks to danny for posting that study.

I cant tolerate antidepressants, they make my symptoms worst. So good to see that study.

 

[Nielk]

I wish our medical doctors would see these studies BEFORE they poison us!

 

[Nielk]

did you see the movie The stepford wives?
I feel that doctors are trying to make us subserviant by numbing our senses by drugging us with SSRIs so that we should just stop complaining.

 

[Tia]

Well, the body's a strange thing, and what works to ameliorate some malfunction may not be what "should" work.

The disease causes inflamation and other detrimental effects on the brain. For the most part we don't have a good remedy for the disease itself - though there have been exceptions - so we must attempt to treat the symptoms without aggravating the disease. I believe the brain malfunctions in ME can force depression. Depression is also a common problem with any chronic, disabling disease and is no trivial matter; it is a dangerous disease on its own.

Antidepressants help some people with one or more of the diseases which have been tossed in the M.E bucket, how much they help and whether something else would do just as well needs attention. Wellbutrin, for example, seems to give <some> people more energy.
Some antidepressants can also be treacherous brain damaging agents... the practice of prescribing them like candy and not monitoring for harm is/was criminal, as were other aspects of how SSRIs were promoted, rather like modern snake oil.

Medicines are often dangerous. So are diseases. SSRIs have a particularly insidious risk which was artfully concealed, but if you want to take only substances which are always harmless to everyone you must rule out most prescriptions, herbs, vitamins and supplements.

Woord! My former doctor was like that; he wanted to prescribe me EVERYTHING! Sedative after sedative and I was supposed to take eight a day when I only needed half a pill. I changed doctors, he was supposed to be an expert on not getting addicted but I swear, he was adicted himself, at least he acted like it.