Does high iron but low ferritin point to heavy metal toxicity?

[jjxx]

If look at taurine and the transsulfuration pathway isolatedly, hardly anyone would disagree with you. However, taurine is not simply an end product of this pathway and sitting there doing nothing else. It is involved in phase 2 of liver detox, which means it is involved in numerous processes/pathways. Those processes/pathways have no impact of any sort on the transsulfuration pathway?

We must delve into details but must not get lost in details and loose the big picture. This is my philosophy of healing.

 

[Learner1]

If look at taurine and the transsulfuration pathway isolatedly, hardly anyone would disagree with you. However, taurine is not simply an end product of this pathway and sitting there doing nothing else. It is involved in phase 2 of liver detox, which means it is involved in numerous processes/pathways. Those processes/pathways have no impact of any sort on the transsulfuration pathway?

We must delve into details but must not get lost in details and loose the big picture.

Taurine is used for bile synthesis. Bile is necessary for removing toxins from the body, rather than being reabsorbed. Here is a big picture look, which highlights the importance of taurine at the end:

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/mthfr-digestion-methylation-connection-gallbladder-function/

 

[jjxx]

@Learner1 What's your opinion about supplement sulfate directly from Epsom salt? Another sauce of sulfate supplements is MSM, which makes me drowsy. Apparently, I have sulfur sensitivity.

 

[jjxx]

Taurine is used for bile synthesis. Bile is necessary for removing toxins from the body, rather than being reabsorbed. Here is a big picture look, which highlights the importance of taurine at the end:

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/mthfr-digestion-methylation-connection-gallbladder-function/

After studying this article awhile ago, I decided to give taurine a trial. I experienced depressive effect from it within a day or two. I seem to benefit more of supplementing phase 1 nutrients such as B complex etc not pushing phase 2 further. Truly the two phases of liver detox must be balanced.

 

[Learner1]

@Learner1 What's your opinion about supplement sulfate directly from Epsom salt? Another sauce of sulfate supplements is MSM, which makes me drowsy. Apparently, I have sulfur sensitivity.

My opinion is that your body needs sulfur containing amino acids for a great number of tasks, and they are where you should be getting most of your sulfur from. And that you need to ensure your pathways are all optimized to get rid of excess sulfur by optimizing digestion and gall bladder function, as well as having adequate nutrients to support the entire process.

 

[Learner1]

After studying this article awhile ago, I decided to give taurine a trial. I experienced depressive effect from it within a day or two. I seem to benefit more of supplementing phase 1 nutrients such as B complex etc not pushing phase 2 further. Truly the two phases of liver detox must be balanced.

May have something to do with your CYP450 SNPs, your toxic load, and/or nutrient cofactors status.

 

[jjxx]

May have something to do with your CYP450 SNPs, your toxic load, and/or nutrient cofactors status.

That's exactly what I suspect!
I fell instantly ill since starting menses at age of 12. Finally decades later, I started self hacking last Thanksgiving and had a great success within 6-8 weeks. Then I replaced probiotics with prebiotics which was the single biggest mistake from which I have not been able to recover till today. I lost half of what I gained because of yeast re-growth. Now I realized that all my quick success was based on my months long use of probiotics without my knowledge, which laid the foundation for my recovery. However, I have been trying the same probiotics for 6 months now without success. I did add some other components to my anti-yeast crusade: syntol AMD, 10-undecenoic acid. They all caused marked liver fatigue (a term that I would like to coin). I also have turpentine but have not tried it for the same concern.
The good news from all my sad stories is that I start to connect some dots and get a bigger picture of my illness without getting any tests such as 23andme or nutritional profiles. You are right on the spot about p450 SNPs, which must be one of root causes of my illness, another is sulfite sensitivity, in another words, my own sulfite makes me qutie ill. To make things worse, without proper sulfate pathway, my body cant effectively remove toxins, especially heavy metals like lead, arsenic, mercury.

 

[Learner1]

Well, stay away from the turpentine for now...

Understanding your SNPs and doing a NutrEval would be tremendously helpful, rather than gyessing - its surprising what you may learn...

 

[alicec]

However, taurine is not simply an end product of this pathway and sitting there doing nothing else.

Yes my point is that taurine supplementation may well be helpful for various reasons (it is also a neurotransmitter and an osmolyte used to regulate fluid balance within cells, along with other functions mentioned) but it makes no sense to claim that its value lies in stimulating transsulfuration. It doesn't.

 

[Learner1]

Yes my point is that taurine supplementation may well be helpful for various reasons (it is also a neurotransmitter and an osmolyte used to regulate fluid balance within cells, along with other functions mentioned) but it makes no sense to claim that its value lies in stimulating transsulfuration. It doesn't.

How about if we say it works WITH transsulfuration as an essential ingredient in removing toxins from our body?

 

[alicec]

How about if we say it works WITH transsulfuration as an essential ingredient in removing toxins from our body?

That sounds like they are two separate entities; taurine is produced by the transsulfuration pathway.

I would certainly agree that taurine's essential role in bile acid conjugation makes it important in removing waste products from the body.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I don't supplement with Moly due to gout issues, but benefit greatly of eating a high Moly diet, which also happens to be high in B1. When I have a wrench in the purine metabolism (like right now), high Moly foods hurt.

Taking anything sulfate/taurine in my case seems very detrimental because it apparently stops the endogenous production and I get sulfite build up. The solution seems to be taking Moly, right? Gout.

OTOH B2 and B6 are inhibitors of 5α-reductase which participates in bile acid biosynthesis, so if B6 metabolism is sped up (transsulfuration), would this imply lower Taurine???

 

[Gondwanaland]

Wikipedia Thiamine entry says:

Antagonists
Thiamine in foods can be degraded in a variety of ways. Sulfites, which are added to foods usually as a preservative,[21] will attack thiamine at the methylene bridge in the structure, cleaving the pyrimidine ring from the thiazole ring.[9] The rate of this reaction is increased under acidic conditions. Thiamine is degraded by thermolabile thiaminases (present in raw fish and shellfish[8]). Some thiaminases are produced by bacteria. Bacterial thiaminases are cell surface enzymes that must dissociate from the membrane before being activated; the dissociation can occur in ruminants under acidotic conditions. Rumen bacteria also reduce sulfate to sulfite, therefore high dietary intakes of sulfate can have thiamine-antagonistic activities.

Plant thiamine antagonists are heat-stable and occur as both the ortho- and para-hydroxyphenols. Some examples of these antagonists are caffeic acid, chlorogenic acid, and tannic acid. These compounds interact with the thiamine to oxidize the thiazole ring, thus rendering it unable to be absorbed. Two flavonoids, quercetin and rutin, have also been implicated as thiamine antagonists.[9]

 

[jjxx]

Wikipedia Thiamine entry says:

Good information! It starts to make sense to me now.
I have been wondering why not many people take sulfate supplement such as Epsom salt, MSM if sulfite conversion to sulfate is slowed down. It points to gut health again. Sulfate will be turned to sulfite by bacteria in the gut for people without proper flora, from which I believe many of chronic ills suffer.

 

[jjxx]

OTOH B2 and B6 are inhibitors of 5α-reductase which participates in bile acid biosynthesis, so if B6 metabolism is sped up (transsulfuration), would this imply lower Taurine???

It seems like you would get a good balance if you are lucky, or get into a futile cycle if unlucky depends on your own biochemistry: b2 and b6 speed up transsulfuration, then you end up with more taurine; they also do another job with 5alpha-reductase to make sure you are not overproduce bile acid.

 

[sk123]

Iron results aren't matching up. Can someone look at this and see what they can come up with please?

Serum iron and Percent saturation is high while all other markers for iron appear low and ferritin is low compared to the percent saturation. Hematocrit, MCHC, RBC, hemoglobin are all lowish.
Serum iron 138
TIBC 329 (ref range 250-450)
uibc 191 (131-425)
iron saturation 42% ( this has come down quite a bit..used to be 55% or so in past year or 2)
Ferritin 59 (15-150)
vit b12 is >2000 (this is with me only taking active forms of b12 (methylcobalamin 1000 mg daily and dibencozide source naturals 2-3 times a week). My cobalamin was rock bottom on hair mineral test from doctors data and MMA was raised beginning of year the year but had normalized a few months back

Reticulocyte count is 1 (.6-2.6) so this is a hypo response? Makes me think either folate or b12 is still an issue?
folate >20 (ref range >3)
RBC 4.04 (3.77-5.28 is the ref range)
wbc 7.2 (3.4-10.8)
hematocrit 36.9 (34-46.6)
MCV is 91 (79-97) Is this pointing to a folate deficiency? Im taking 400 mcg of solgar folate daily
MCHC 31.7 (31.5-35.7)
hemoglobin 11.7 (11.1-15.9)
rdw 13.8 (12.3-15.4)
albumin 4.4 (3.4-5.5)
Thank you in advance!

 

[Learner1]

Iron results aren't matching up. Can someone look at this and see what they can come up with please?

Serum iron and Percent saturation is high while all other markers for iron appear low and ferritin is low compared to the percent saturation. Hematocrit, MCHC, RBC, hemoglobin are all lowish.
Serum iron 138
TIBC 329 (ref range 250-450)
uibc 191 (131-425)
iron saturation 42% ( this has come down quite a bit..used to be 55% or so in past year or 2)
Ferritin 59 (15-150)
vit b12 is >2000 (this is with me only taking active forms of b12 (methylcobalamin 1000 mg daily and dibencozide source naturals 2-3 times a week). My cobalamin was rock bottom on hair mineral test from doctors data and MMA was raised beginning of year the year but had normalized a few months back

Reticulocyte count is 1 (.6-2.6) so this is a hypo response? Makes me think either folate or b12 is still an issue?
folate >20 (ref range >3)
RBC 4.04 (3.77-5.28 is the ref range)
wbc 7.2 (3.4-10.8)
hematocrit 36.9 (34-46.6)
MCV is 91 (79-97) Is this pointing to a folate deficiency? Im taking 400 mcg of solgar folate daily
MCHC 31.7 (31.5-35.7)
hemoglobin 11.7 (11.1-15.9)
rdw 13.8 (12.3-15.4)
albumin 4.4 (3.4-5.5)
Thank you in advance!

Look into a B6 deficiency. You need it to make heme/hemoglobin.

MCV would be high with either a folate or B12 deficiency. Yours looks fine.