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Does high iron but low ferritin point to heavy metal toxicity?

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Thyroid hormone can be supplemented. A lot of things can disturb thyroid function. L-carnitine is used by mitochondria in the process of making ATP, which is pretty important.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566449/

I wanted to make sure the person who wrote the message (sk123) knew that. I understand that sometimes it is best to add the carnitine and then add whatever thyroid prescriptions are necessary to bring the thyroid back into a euthyroid state. This would involve getting diagnosed and treated by a doctor for hypothyroidism and having thyroid hormones monitored with blood levels.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
I wanted to make sure the person who wrote the message (sk123) knew that. I understand that sometimes it is best to add the carnitine and then add whatever thyroid prescriptions are necessary to bring the thyroid back into a euthyroid state. This would involve getting diagnosed and treated by a doctor for hypothyroidism and having thyroid hormones monitored with blood levels.
I am in total agreement...;) Thanks for making that point.



(Spent my morning arguing with a rheumatologist who was fixated on my suppressed TSH, while ignoring the big picture... going back to my naturopath, who can manage mitochondria and thyroid at the same time...)
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
(Spent my morning arguing with a rheumatologist who was fixated on my suppressed TSH, while ignoring the big picture... going back to my naturopath, who can manage mitochondria and thyroid at the same time...)

I'm so sorry you had to deal with this. Conventional doctors don't take too well to a suppressed TSH. Congratulations on finding a naturopath who knows how to deal with both. :)
 
Messages
61
Arsenic, cadmium, lead, and mercury are on the top 10 list of chemicals of most concern to health:

http://www.who.int/ipcs/assessment/public_health/chemicals_phc/en/

Metals, such as arsenic, lead, cadmium, mercury, and manganese, have been shown to accumulate in mitochondria and impair ATP production. For example:

http://www.biochempages.com/2015/08/arsenic-poisoning-mechanism-and-targets.html

People with hemachromatosis SNPs are likely to have increased lead levels:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18795173

So, it would definitely be wise to test heavy metals, which may be a factor in the whole picture, aside from an iron problem.
Please view the oats test from Great Plains. Should i be getting a nutraeval from Genova as a follow up test or stick with Great Plains organic acids test?
 

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Messages
61
Thyroid hormone can be supplemented. A lot of things can disturb thyroid function. L-carnitine is used by mitochondria in the process of making ATP, which is pretty important.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4566449/
Hello all
I have posted my organic acid test results finally. Kindly go through this with a fine toothed comb and let me know your valuable feedback.The keytones were extremely high so im confused if its ok to take 2000 mg of carnitine a day or not. I am on 75 mcg of cytomel daily for last 5 to 6 yrs. What can be causing such high keytones? My blood sugar fasting is high like ranging from 118 to 138 which is so not diet dependent. I am taking berberine again to help decrease fasting insulin . I feel that high bg that is not correlating with diet is related to something going on internally that i havent unearthed yet. What to test for besides heavy metals? This whole high iron but lowish hemoglobin, high methyl malonic acid, fatigue, and high bg esp fasting is related somehow. It seems wrinkles appeared out of no where in last 2 wks and where i lay on side i wake up a deep line on the side of my face. Like skin elasticity all of a sudden just went to pots. Does nadh or 5 htp cause vision changes ? Noticed a bit more blurry vision since starting 5htp, carnitine, and or nadh.
Thank you all for your replies
 
Messages
61
I wanted to make sure the person who wrote the message (sk123) knew that. I understand that sometimes it is best to add the carnitine and then add whatever thyroid prescriptions are necessary to bring the thyroid back into a euthyroid state. This would involve getting diagnosed and treated by a doctor for hypothyroidism and having thyroid hormones monitored with blood levels.
Thank you for bringing up this point. So how does carnitine interfere with thyroid? Is it because it decreases cortisol levels?
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Thank you for bringing up this point. So how does carnitine interfere with thyroid? Is it because it decreases cortisol levels?
Effects of carnitine on thyroid hormone action
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15591013
By experiments on cells (neurons, hepatocytes, and fibroblasts) that are targets for thyroid hormones and a randomized clinical trial on iatrogenic hyperthyroidism, we validated the concept that L-carnitine is a peripheral antagonist of thyroid hormone action. In particular, L-carnitine inhibits both triiodothyronine (T3) and thyroxine (T4) entry into the cell nuclei. This is relevant because thyroid hormone action is mainly mediated by specific nuclear receptors. In the randomized trial, we showed that 2 and 4 grams per day of oral L-carnitine are capable of reversing hyperthyroid symptoms (and biochemical changes in the hyperthyroid direction) as well as preventing (or minimizing) the appearance of hyperthyroid symptoms (or biochemical changes in the hyperthyroid direction). It is noteworthy that some biochemical parameters (thyrotropin and urine hydroxyproline) were refractory to the L-carnitine inhibition of thyroid hormone action, while osteocalcin changed in the hyperthyroid direction, but with a beneficial end result on bone. A very recent clinical observation proved the usefulness of L-carnitine in the most serious form of hyperthyroidism: thyroid storm. Since hyperthyroidism impoverishes the tissue deposits of carnitine, there is a rationale for using L-carnitine at least in certain clinical settings.

Your dose of 75mcg of Cytomel could be compensating for some of the inhibitory actions of carnitine. Just FYI, it is possible that if you lowered your carnitine dose, you would need less Cytomel. But as Learner1 stated, your mitochondria need the carnitine. I think Sarah Myhill even said that it would be best to take the 2g of carnitine and take whatever thyroid hormones you need to reach a euthyroid state.

I would discuss any changes you're contemplating regarding carnitine with your doctor.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
@sk123

Your problems go far beyond iron, carnitine and thyroid. I read through your previous posts and test results...Who did this test for you and what are their recommendations?

Some thoughts:

First, your gut. Have you tried a grain free, dairy free, heavy vegetable, ketogenic diet? High quality probiotic daily (HLC, Xymogen ProbioMax, Prescript Assist, Dr. Ohhira), fermented foods, and digestive enzymes.

Ask your doctor about B5, acetyl CoA, pyruvate, and your Krebs cycle. Looks like some problems there, impacting energy production.

Looks like your methylation and glutathione production are in the basement. Need to get it all working again.

If your glutathione has been low for a long time, which is likely, I'd wonder about how much toxicity you have... arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, etc. It's likely on your fat, bones, brain, and particularly, in your mitochondria. This can impact ATP production.

A Doctors Data 6 hour Provoked Urine Heavy Metals test, with some combo of DMSA, DMPS, or EDTA would be valuable.

You're low in all the main methylation nutrients:

B12 (probably methyl, adenosyl, and some hydroxy)
5-MTHF (folate)
Riboflavin (B2)
Pyridoxal-5-phosphate (B6)

Either what you're doing is simply not enough, or your gut isn't working well enough or both. You might consider injectibles.

Low cholesterol and odd iron could mean chronic infection. With chlamydia pneumoniae, B12 and B6 can be getting sucked up fast, so you may need very large doses (I take 10mg B12 and 350mg P5P daily...).

Have you been tested for Lyme, mycoplasma, and viruses?

As homocysteine is low, how is l-methionine? Did I miss it? You may need to supplement it over TMG to overcome a methyl trap.

And how are cell membranes? Maybe look up Garth Nicholson and CFS or chronic infections, and try NT Factor.

Lots to think about. I hope your doctor can help you sort through the cluster, prioritize, and get you going on the path to wellness.
 
Messages
61
@sk123, can you tell us when you came down with ME/CFS or what makes you think you might have ME/CFS? Thanks
Hello
I just introduced myself on the forum. Sorry I didnt know I was suppose to do that. I have had low energy for about 10 yrs now. Doing simple tasks like grocery shopping takes a lot of motivation to go complete. I am not bed bound by any means but just simple tasks others take for granted take me a while to complete.I have had flatlined cortisol levels in the past and its not getting any better. Instead of just taking HC I want to try to unearth what is really causing the low cortisol and this fatigue. I do remember in 2010 having a very high epstein barr IGG antibody (1280) but since IGM antibody was <10 no one did anything about it.
 
Messages
61
@sk123

Your problems go far beyond iron, carnitine and thyroid. I read through your previous posts and test results...Who did this test for you and what are their recommendations?

Some thoughts:

First, your gut. Have you tried a grain free, dairy free, heavy vegetable, ketogenic diet? High quality probiotic daily (HLC, Xymogen ProbioMax, Prescript Assist, Dr. Ohhira), fermented foods, and digestive enzymes.

Ask your doctor about B5, acetyl CoA, pyruvate, and your Krebs cycle. Looks like some problems there, impacting energy production.

Looks like your methylation and glutathione production are in the basement. Need to get it all working again.

If your glutathione has been low for a long time, which is likely, I'd wonder about how much toxicity you have... arsenic, cadmium, lead, mercury, etc. It's likely on your fat, bones, brain, and particularly, in your mitochondria. This can impact ATP production.

A Doctors Data 6 hour Provoked Urine Heavy Metals test, with some combo of DMSA, DMPS, or EDTA would be valuable.

You're low in all the main methylation nutrients:

B12 (probably methyl, adenosyl, and some hydroxy)
5-MTHF (folate)
Riboflavin (B2)
Pyridoxal-5-phosphate (B6)

Either what you're doing is simply not enough, or your gut isn't working well enough or both. You might consider injectibles.

Low cholesterol and odd iron could mean chronic infection. With chlamydia pneumoniae, B12 and B6 can be getting sucked up fast, so you may need very large doses (I take 10mg B12 and 350mg P5P daily...).

Have you been tested for Lyme, mycoplasma, and viruses?

As homocysteine is low, how is l-methionine? Did I miss it? You may need to supplement it over TMG to overcome a methyl trap.

And how are cell membranes? Maybe look up Garth Nicholson and CFS or chronic infections, and try NT Factor.

Lots to think about. I hope your doctor can help you sort through the cluster, prioritize, and get you going on the path to wellness.
Thank you so much for the detailed response. I cant find a knowledgeable practitioner, so for now flying solo. I had teied alternative medicine pra tionera in past but didnt get very far as none of the root issues were targeted. There are some naturopaths that might be good with other things but arent familiar with methylation so i want to find someone that can target that as well.
Im on 50 mg b2 twice daily, panthethine
B6 50 mg
B complex
Hydroxy b12
My homocysteine decreases when i use too much b12. I think mostly methylcobalamin causes this so not sure how this correlates with methyl trapping.

Where do i find my levels for l methionine please? I dont think Great Plains OAT test tests for this.

Yes methylation defidefinetely needs a lot help. How do i get started beyond my 50 mg of b2 twice daily, 50 mg b6, 1000 mg perque hydroxy b12 ? I am taking 50 mg of molybdenum to help with cbs snps. I do take loquid phosphatidyl choline. My fat absorption is an issue but not sure where the glitch is beta oxidation or bile production etc.
I did the micro nutrient test from spectracell last year and it showed low b2, low b5, bordeline low choline (im homozygous for PEMT snps), low chromium, borderline low inositol, low selenium, and low vitamin k. In past a stool test from biohealth showed excessive enterobacter. So maybe thats why b2 is low. Glutathione was actually pretty good last year. B6 was also sufficient but this year b6 from oats test shows extremely low levels. B12 and folate were sufficient but not optimal last year. Would NAC be beneficial now even though its a sulfur based supplement? I am hetero for all cbs SNPs. If so is it best tp take at night?
I am unsure of when to add in folate. All i take is a b complex with has 400 mg of folate in it. Should i be adding more? How do i keep from overmethylating? I know niacin is used to soak up excess methyl groups but can i take b2 and b3 together [ as in atp cofactors pill] or should i keep any b3 away from rest of b6 b2 b12 ?

Ive been taking olive leaf, oregano oil, urva ursi and swtiching every 4 days to eradicate gut pathogens. The oats test showed bacterial overgrowrh with small amount of yeast.
I have not been tested for viruses. Ive had pityriasis rosea in past and a high igg antibody test [in the 1260 range] igm was less than 10 for epstein barr which i dont really know what to make of. I feel a viral load is prob high. What all is usually recommended to test and is there a lab that has a panel or is each one tested individually by labcorp or what not?
How do you test for chalymidia pneumonia and is testing for lyme necessary of you have never been bit by a tick? How to test for mycoplasma?
So would a hair minerals test still be ok to do ? I am a bit hesitant to do provoked urine testing but i want to get good solid results.
I am gluten free an mostly dairy free bit do eat cheese here and there sometimes (not sensitive to casein ). I eat a paleo type diet that is low carb. Blood sugars esp fsstinf is prerry high around 118 to 138. This does not corelate with what i am eating.I tried to eat increased fat in the diet to increase fatty acid profile but thats when i think I started getting extremely thirsty and from oats test you can see the keytones are superrrrr high. As it i now i m eating a very low carb moderate protein and moderate fat diet. Im taking zymogens probiotics.
Thank you
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Hello
I just introduced myself on the forum. Sorry I didnt know I was suppose to do that. I have had low energy for about 10 yrs now. Doing simple tasks like grocery shopping takes a lot of motivation to go complete. I am not bed bound by any means but just simple tasks others take for granted take me a while to complete.I have had flatlined cortisol levels in the past and its not getting any better. Instead of just taking HC I want to try to unearth what is really causing the low cortisol and this fatigue. I do remember in 2010 having a very high epstein barr IGG antibody (1280) but since IGM antibody was <10 no one did anything about it.

Thanks! Knowing a bit more about your history and what led you here helps us understand you a bit more. While no one can diagnose you, a lot of us are very familiar with how people feel when they are sick with ME/CFS (among other things) and some are also very good at scrutinizing lab results. I hope we can help you!

I understand about the difficulty with grocery shopping and finding the energy to do simple tasks.

If you could post your general location maybe someone here could recommend a good practitioner for you. It looks like you're spending a lot of money on tests and supplements which may or may not be leading you in the right direction. The right practitioner might even save you money in the long run.

Ben Lynch has a listing of practitioners who understand methylation:
https://seekinghealth.org/physician...fields[1]&listingfields[10]&wpbdp_view=search
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Thank you so much for the detailed response. I cant find a knowledgeable practitioner, so for now flying solo. I had teied alternative medicine pra tionera in past but didnt get very far as none of the root issues were targeted. There are some naturopaths that might be good with other things but arent familiar with methylation so i want to find someone that can target that as well.
Im on 50 mg b2 twice daily, panthethine
B6 50 mg
B complex
Hydroxy b12
My homocysteine decreases when i use too much b12. I think mostly methylcobalamin causes this so not sure how this correlates with methyl trapping.

Where do i find my levels for l methionine please? I dont think Great Plains OAT test tests for this.

Yes methylation defidefinetely needs a lot help. How do i get started beyond my 50 mg of b2 twice daily, 50 mg b6, 1000 mg perque hydroxy b12 ? I am taking 50 mg of molybdenum to help with cbs snps. I do take loquid phosphatidyl choline. My fat absorption is an issue but not sure where the glitch is beta oxidation or bile production etc.
I did the micro nutrient test from spectracell last year and it showed low b2, low b5, bordeline low choline (im homozygous for PEMT snps), low chromium, borderline low inositol, low selenium, and low vitamin k. In past a stool test from biohealth showed excessive enterobacter. So maybe thats why b2 is low. Glutathione was actually pretty good last year. B6 was also sufficient but this year b6 from oats test shows extremely low levels. B12 and folate were sufficient but not optimal last year. Would NAC be beneficial now even though its a sulfur based supplement? I am hetero for all cbs SNPs. If so is it best tp take at night?
I am unsure of when to add in folate. All i take is a b complex with has 400 mg of folate in it. Should i be adding more? How do i keep from overmethylating? I know niacin is used to soak up excess methyl groups but can i take b2 and b3 together [ as in atp cofactors pill] or should i keep any b3 away from rest of b6 b2 b12 ?

Ive been taking olive leaf, oregano oil, urva ursi and swtiching every 4 days to eradicate gut pathogens. The oats test showed bacterial overgrowrh with small amount of yeast.
I have not been tested for viruses. Ive had pityriasis rosea in past and a high igg antibody test [in the 1260 range] igm was less than 10 for epstein barr which i dont really know what to make of. I feel a viral load is prob high. What all is usually recommended to test and is there a lab that has a panel or is each one tested individually by labcorp or what not?
How do you test for chalymidia pneumonia and is testing for lyme necessary of you have never been bit by a tick? How to test for mycoplasma?
So would a hair minerals test still be ok to do ? I am a bit hesitant to do provoked urine testing but i want to get good solid results.
I am gluten free an mostly dairy free bit do eat cheese here and there sometimes (not sensitive to casein ). I eat a paleo type diet that is low carb. Blood sugars esp fsstinf is prerry high around 118 to 138. This does not corelate with what i am eating.I tried to eat increased fat in the diet to increase fatty acid profile but thats when i think I started getting extremely thirsty and from oats test you can see the keytones are superrrrr high. As it i now i m eating a very low carb moderate protein and moderate fat diet. Im taking zymogens probiotics.
Thank you
I had a busy week and need to recover to answer your many questions.

In the meantime, I agree with the advice to go through Ben Lynch's materials. Also Google "Heartfixer Dr. Roberts methylation" and read up on it. I suspect your doses may be off.

For the bugs, I've mostly had LabCorp tests.

And, you can do a Doctors Data provoked urine test with oral chelators - I'll find and post from my notes at a lecture I was at this week.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
It sounds like you need a good practitioner, someone who can lead with an organized approach.

My practitioner typically uses LabCorp tests to test for viruses and bacteria, as well as homocysteine, liver and kidney function and hormones.

Genova Diagnostics NutrEval is a more comprehensive test than OAT or SpectraCell. They have a $159 PrePay program, so it's a good value for the extensive info it provides. I've been to conferences with doctors and it seems to be used by most of the best practitioners out there. You might try the Find A Provider on their website.

It is especially good for understanding methylation issues and customizing a plan. The doses you report for Bs and molybdenum sound random. You need to get the proportions right for you.

Normal homocysteine should be around 7. Most people with methylation issues tend to have high homocysteine. Throughout my cancer and CFS treatment, mine has run low... typically 5-6, and recently 3. My very competent doctor said its methyl trapping, over in MTRR. He was quite surprised that my methionine was close to 0 - it is used to recycle homocysteine.

The solution was to take 1g each of l-methionine and TMG. I also need about 10mg a day of methyl B12 - if I don't, I'm on the floor in a heap. So, avoiding methyl B12 due to lowering homocysteine may not be the right answer for you.

B3 can reverse methylation, and it can be made from B6 anyway. Fixing your B6 is important - it's used in methylation, to make hemoglobin, to make cell membranes, etc. B2 is important in methylation too, and was found to be depleted in the Naviaux CFS paper.

You seem low in all the methylation nutrients, so ensuring you have enough is important, and taking 50mg of each doesn't seem like a good strategy. To give you an idea of nutrient proportions (but realize you'll be different and I have been very ill), I take:

800mcg 5-MTHF
10mg MB12
2mg HB12
300mcg AB12
500mg niacinamide
100mg riboflavin
350mg pyridoxal-5-phosphate
600mg magnesium malate
1g l-methionine
1g TMG
1.5g NAC
350mg R-glutathione
600mg benfotiamine
500mg taurine
1mg molybdenum

You likely have toxicity, too - the NutrEval can give you an idea if you are. I'll post another entry on heavy metal testing.

And with the PEMT SNPs and being low in choline, you might want to consider NT Factor for lipid replenishment of cell membranes. (Look up Garth Nicolson CFS lipid replenishment.)

Working on your gut is important - Genova Diagnostics, Diagnostechs, and Thryveinside all have good tests and can help guide you in fixing it. Avoid allergens, rotate high quality probiotics, use digestive enzymes, and eat plenty of veggies.
 
Messages
61
I had a busy week and need to recover to answer your many questions.

In the meantime, I agree with the advice to go through Ben Lynch's materials. Also Google "Heartfixer Dr. Roberts methylation" and read up on it. I suspect your doses may be off.

For the bugs, I've mostly had LabCorp tests.

And, you can do a Doctors Data provoked urine test with oral chelators - I'll find and post from my notes at a lecture I was at this week.
Hello
I totallyyyy understand. It takes me a while to mentally gear up to write a simple email and Ive asked so many questions in mine. Ive been reading the treatment files etc. What is not clear to me is how to to support CBS snps before moving onto b12 and folate supplementation. I will reread the material again. Please rest up and take care of your health first. There is no rush. :)
 
Messages
61
It sounds like you need a good practitioner, someone who can lead with an organized approach.

My practitioner typically uses LabCorp tests to test for viruses and bacteria, as well as homocysteine, liver and kidney function and hormones.

Genova Diagnostics NutrEval is a more comprehensive test than OAT or SpectraCell. They have a $159 PrePay program, so it's a good value for the extensive info it provides. I've been to conferences with doctors and it seems to be used by most of the best practitioners out there. You might try the Find A Provider on their website.

It is especially good for understanding methylation issues and customizing a plan. The doses you report for Bs and molybdenum sound random. You need to get the proportions right for you.

Normal homocysteine should be around 7. Most people with methylation issues tend to have high homocysteine. Throughout my cancer and CFS treatment, mine has run low... typically 5-6, and recently 3. My very competent doctor said its methyl trapping, over in MTRR. He was quite surprised that my methionine was close to 0 - it is used to recycle homocysteine.

The solution was to take 1g each of l-methionine and TMG. I also need about 10mg a day of methyl B12 - if I don't, I'm on the floor in a heap. So, avoiding methyl B12 due to lowering homocysteine may not be the right answer for you.

B3 can reverse methylation, and it can be made from B6 anyway. Fixing your B6 is important - it's used in methylation, to make hemoglobin, to make cell membranes, etc. B2 is important in methylation too, and was found to be depleted in the Naviaux CFS paper.

You seem low in all the methylation nutrients, so ensuring you have enough is important, and taking 50mg of each doesn't seem like a good strategy. To give you an idea of nutrient proportions (but realize you'll be different and I have been very ill), I take:

800mcg 5-MTHF
10mg MB12
2mg HB12
300mcg AB12
500mg niacinamide
100mg riboflavin
350mg pyridoxal-5-phosphate
600mg magnesium malate
1g l-methionine
1g TMG
1.5g NAC
350mg R-glutathione
600mg benfotiamine
500mg taurine
1mg molybdenum

You likely have toxicity, too - the NutrEval can give you an idea if you are. I'll post another entry on heavy metal testing.

And with the PEMT SNPs and being low in choline, you might want to consider NT Factor for lipid replenishment of cell membranes. (Look up Garth Nicolson CFS lipid replenishment.)

Working on your gut is important - Genova Diagnostics, Diagnostechs, and Thryveinside all have good tests and can help guide you in fixing it. Avoid allergens, rotate high quality probiotics, use digestive enzymes, and eat plenty of veggies.
 
Messages
61
It sounds like you need a good practitioner, someone who can lead with an organized approach.

My practitioner typically uses LabCorp tests to test for viruses and bacteria, as well as homocysteine, liver and kidney function and hormones.

Genova Diagnostics NutrEval is a more comprehensive test than OAT or SpectraCell. They have a $159 PrePay program, so it's a good value for the extensive info it provides. I've been to conferences with doctors and it seems to be used by most of the best practitioners out there. You might try the Find A Provider on their website.

It is especially good for understanding methylation issues and customizing a plan. The doses you report for Bs and molybdenum sound random. You need to get the proportions right for you.

Normal homocysteine should be around 7. Most people with methylation issues tend to have high homocysteine. Throughout my cancer and CFS treatment, mine has run low... typically 5-6, and recently 3. My very competent doctor said its methyl trapping, over in MTRR. He was quite surprised that my methionine was close to 0 - it is used to recycle homocysteine.

The solution was to take 1g each of l-methionine and TMG. I also need about 10mg a day of methyl B12 - if I don't, I'm on the floor in a heap. So, avoiding methyl B12 due to lowering homocysteine may not be the right answer for you.

B3 can reverse methylation, and it can be made from B6 anyway. Fixing your B6 is important - it's used in methylation, to make hemoglobin, to make cell membranes, etc. B2 is important in methylation too, and was found to be depleted in the Naviaux CFS paper.

You seem low in all the methylation nutrients, so ensuring you have enough is important, and taking 50mg of each doesn't seem like a good strategy. To give you an idea of nutrient proportions (but realize you'll be different and I have been very ill), I take:

800mcg 5-MTHF
10mg MB12
2mg HB12
300mcg AB12
500mg niacinamide
100mg riboflavin
350mg pyridoxal-5-phosphate
600mg magnesium malate
1g l-methionine
1g TMG
1.5g NAC
350mg R-glutathione
600mg benfotiamine
500mg taurine
1mg molybdenum

You likely have toxicity, too - the NutrEval can give you an idea if you are. I'll post another entry on heavy metal testing.

And with the PEMT SNPs and being low in choline, you might want to consider NT Factor for lipid replenishment of cell membranes. (Look up Garth Nicolson CFS lipid replenishment.)

Working on your gut is important - Genova Diagnostics, Diagnostechs, and Thryveinside all have good tests and can help guide you in fixing it. Avoid allergens, rotate high quality probiotics, use digestive enzymes, and eat plenty of veggies.
Thank you for the reply. I agree that i need to find a clinician but having a hard time. Im in Charlotte, nc area but willing to travel to get the right care. Is your doctor a naturopath or a functional medicine doc? How did he test for methionine?
I like that you are actively seeking out and learning new info. I am the same way and have just been reading and reading. Trying to get some traction lately.
I was thinking to start with a hair mineral test as it seems the most benign. The provoked urine test would require prescription to get edta etc.
My regular MD would order whatever testing i needed but i have to tell him exactly which blood tests to run for viral load.
Lots to think about. I get lost in details. Tend to think and think and no traction to actually get something fruitful done. What is the best way to find a clincian? I tried to look on shei Ben Lynchs website but very few people have done 3 courses. I almost just need to attend his course so i can learn for myself.
 

Learner1

Senior Member
Messages
6,305
Location
Pacific Northwest
Im in Charlotte, nc area but willing to travel to get the right care. Is your doctor a naturopath or a functional medicine doc? How did he test for methionine

My doctor is a functional medicine doctor who is an ND trained at Bastyr. There are MDs, ARNPs, DCs, and DOs who are functional medicine doctor as well. You want one with a lot of experience with functional medicine.

The Genova Diagnostics NutrEval tests for methionine, along with all the other aminos. They're based in NC, so see if they can steer you to a good practitioner.

I was thinking to start with a hair mineral test as it seems the most benign. The provoked urine test would require prescription to get edta etc

I just attended a lecture by Joseph Pizzorno, who has 40 years of experience with detoxing. He was talking to a group of MDs. He recommended the Doctors Data Urine Heavy Metals test, which is the one I've had 4 different practitioner use, and it's the one I see used in case studies at conferences.

He said to void first morning urine, then take 500mg DMSA and 300mg DMPS orally, then collect urine for 6 hours (the test kit comes with a beer cup and an orange plastic jug). Then you swish it all together and fill a test tube and mail it. A compounding pharmacy can make the DMSA/DMPS - it's cheap. The test is around $90, prepay, as I recall.

The NutrEval tests heavy metals, too, along with styrene and MTBE, so you can get some idea of your toxicity as a first step. But, the provoked test "claws" the heavy metals out of where they're hiding, and you get much better idea. A hair test won't show what's in your fat or liver...

You need to get the data you need at this point.

And, if you have mercury, DON'T chelator until AFTER you have them removed...removing them can release mercury, and then you have to start all over...(want to know how I know this?)

My regular MD would order whatever testing i needed but i have to tell him exactly which blood tests to run for viral load.

These are what the doctors I know test, with IgM, IgA, and IgE (or PCR if you can get it):

Chlamydia pneumoniae
Mycoplasma pneumoniae
Epstein Barr
Cytomegalovirus
HHV6
Parvovirus B19
Toxoplasmosis
Hepatitis B and C
CD58 (or is it 57? It's for Lyme - a mosquito or flea can carry it, not just ticks)
 
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I would guess heavy metal toxicity based on the adrenal fatigue (and ME/CFS if you have that too.)

I suggest only using the Andy Cutler frequent dose chelation protocol for testing and chelation. That means no provoked urine tests.

See my signature link for more info in the Cutler protocol, the right hair test and how to get it interpreted, how to chelate, support forums, etc.

This is what Cutler has to say about ferritin and iron - (go back up to the previous page to see the beginning of the section on iron):
https://books.google.com/books?id=U765adeBPlEC&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=andy cutler "low ferritin"&source=bl&ots=2bW5a9nALq&sig=1_3FFJcKYiNoD2qOrWAJj8GpyaI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUr53M6o3TAhWqjVQKHTSYDsYQ6AEIMTAE#v=onepage&q=andy cutler "low ferritin"&f=false
Hello Caledonia
Can you tell me what is the best methylation panel to get that test things like SAH to SAME ratio etc?I see doctors data has a methylation panel. Also is high iron usually seen with heavy metal toxicity? If pubic hair is used for hair elements test, are results as valid as using head hair? I am seeing conflicting info. Thoughts?