Did the Brodie polio vaccine of the early '30s create ME?

[Chrisb]

I apologise for posting a partial response to my own question but my me brain sometimes works very slowly.

I seem to recall that in another thread, I think it was @Countrygirl posted a video of Heckenlively and Mikovitz in which he asserted that a charitable foundation appeared to be the probable source of the funding for the settlement. Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Countrygirl]

I apologise for posting a partial response to my own question but my me brain sometimes works very slowly.

I seem to recall that in another thread, I think it was @Countrygirl posted a video of Heckenlively and Mikovitz in which he asserted that a charitable foundation appeared to be the probable source of the funding for the settlement. Curiouser and curiouser.

Good Morning @Chrisb. Yes, you're right. I am pummelling my remaining grey cell to try to recall where I found this information. I suspect it came from Dr Byron Hyde originally. I remember that the well-known institution involved in the manufacture of the vaccine (senior moment................I cannot recall it yet, but it is named somewhere in the information that is posted) funded the compensation on condition that the victims did not publically blame the vaccine at a time that they were planning to promote it to the general population.

(I don't have time to search for it right now.)

Edited to add: LIGHT BULB MOMENT: It was the Rockefeller institute! There is an alleged claim that about $7 000 000 disappeared from their accounts for the year that the compensation was paid, but the foundation offered no explanation for the deficit.

 

[Chrisb]

@Countrygirl

I found the video referred to above in the thread Drugs, Disease and Deception-Dr Judy Makovitz on Page 6 the reference is at about min24. Sorry I cannot provide a direct link.

I realise that there are some who instinctively disbelieve anything said by Heckenlively and Mikovitz. I take the view that this aspect of investigation is likely to be within his area of professional competence and that his inferences should at least be given serious consideration, even if one ultimately draws different conclusions.

 

[Chrisb]

There is a possible aspect to this question which I have not seen discussed. I think it can be safely assumed that the Vaccine did not "create" ME, but that there is probably not sufficient information available to determine whether it had an adverse effect on some or all recipients. It would seem that patients not treated in this way probably suffered similar symptoms.

It seems likely that what has created and prolonged interst in the question is the possibility that compensation might have been paid and the assumption that the only reason for this would have been the likelihood of potential legal liability being accepted by defendant's insurers. There is, perhaps, another possible explanation-expediency.

It needs to be remembered that FDR, perhaps the most famous, and certainly the most influential sufferer from polio was inaugurated in 1933. He had earlier established the Warm Springs Institute in Georgia. The National Foundation for Infantile Paralysis later known asThe March of the Dimes Foundation was established in January 1938, seeking to raise charitable funds from the public. According to Wiki it spent $233 million on polio patient care between 1938 and 1955. In such circumstances it might have appeared sensible to shut down any discussion of possible adverse effects of vaccination so as not to endanger fundraising efforts, and possibly risk uptake of the vaccines then in course of development.

FDR would no doubt have been in a position to see that necessary funds were made available.

 

[Chrisb]

On rereading the report on the LA outbreak there appears to be an additional complexity. I have previously only seen reference to the "Brodie vaccine" seeming to indicate that all who received treatment received essentially the same treatment. However the report makes reference to "prophylactic" serum, "therapeutic" serum, and "convalescent" serum together with different methods of delivery. This would give rise to the possibility of different outcomes for the different treatments.

Given the possibility of Rockefeller money being the source of the alleged compensation payments it is interesting to see in the report the references to comparison of the M.V. (Rockefeller Institute) virus with the McK Los Angeles strain.

 

[Chrisb]

The more one looks into this the more obscure everything becomes.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/goldenage/wonder/Archive/Science/wd_brodie&park.htm

this link is to a paper by Brodie and Park in JAMA in Oct 1935. The dates indicated for the initial small trials in July 1934 would suggest that it is unlikely that the vaccine was used prior to the LA Hospital outbreak. As this is thought by some (probably falsely) to be the first reported case of an epidemic of ME, this might preclude the possibility of ME having been caused by the vaccine as has been suggested.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1660172/pdf/calwestmed00353-0016.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1660172/pdf/calwestmed00353-0016.pdf

These papers describe the use of the convalescent, therapeutic and prophylactic sera in the general polio cases. These seem to be unconnected with Brodie.

Is anyone aware of a documented source for the use of the vaccine on the hospital staff before or during the 1934 outbreak? It would have been a serious breach of trust by Gilliam if his report documented treatment with the various sera but not with the vaccine. The general tone of the report does not suggest that he was a man to be so flexible.

Yet there remains the hearsay evidence of people, whose good faith there seems no reason to question, of payment of compensation. One might expect the possibility that people could be honestly mistaken on matters of detail but not on the fundamental facts.

 

[leela]

I'm a bit late to the party (and have only skimmed) but to those questioning how a vaccine can relate to sporadic cases rather than outbreaks, is it not logical to assume that everyone everywhere did not get the vaccine at the same moment? That people get vaccines on their own schedule with their doctors? That not everyone gets sick?

I remember getting the red-liquid oral polio vaccine as a kid, some batches of which are known to have been contaminated with simian virus:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16288015
http://www.sv40foundation.org/SV40-from-PV.html

I use this as an example of how one could see sporadic cases vs outbreaks, due to the sporadic vaccination schedule of individuals.

It has been reported (I cannot verify) that in the seventies Salk himself testified that all cases of polio after 1961 were caused by the (Sabin) vaccine proper.

As is common with neuroimuune disease in general, how it presents varies according to each person's inner and outer terrains, phase of development, lifestyle etc.

 

[barbc56]

It has been reported (I cannot verify) that in the seventies Salk himself testified that all cases of polio after 1961 were caused by the (Sabin) vaccine proper

I am confused about this. It's my understanding this statement is most likely to be untrue. The polio vaccine has erraticated polio in many areas, so that doesn't coincide with what you have said.

Can you cite any references or point me in the right direction?

Thanks

ETA The one site is definitely against vaccinations. The other reference doesn't have any related studies, but maybe I missed this. It appears to be saying some vaccines were contaminated but nothing about the effects. Something I need to look up as I have no idea what the answer is to this question

My other question is whether the activated vaccine actually caused cases of polio.

 

[u&iraok]

I read the entire article, and thought the author effectively presented a number of interesting points in a rather poignant manner. -- I have little doubt vaccinations played a significant role in my own health issues. From the large number of posts on this board, they appear to have played a large role for many others with ME/CFS.

I was struck by the following paragraph. I think it illustrates very well the problem of the enormous complexity associated with developing vaccinations. There are literally an infinite number of variables to consider when formulating them, and short- and long-term consequences will likely never be fully known--especially since so called true scientists often do whatever they can to obscure the truth.

In 1953 Dr. G. Stuart of the World Health organization... wrote: "[T]wo main objections to this vaccine have been voiced, because of the possibility that: (i) the mouse brains employed in its preparation may be contaminated with a virus pathogenic for man although latent in mice . . . or may be the cause of a demyelinating encephalomyelitis; (ii) the use, as antigen, or a virus with enhanced neurotropic properties may be followed by serious reactions involving the central nervous system." My co-author, would add a third concern, namely that a mouse virus could recombine with a human virus and evolve into something very dangerous.​

This is what made me wonder if it was implicated in the surge of ME/CFS cases in the 80's. The children who were vaccinated in the 1950's would have been in their late 30's in the 1980's, an age when ME/CFS often hits. I know it's just speculation, but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind...