Creatine supps and methylation - Rich?

[heapsreal]

Hi Rich, have your views changed much from this in 2009, would d-ribose fit into this as well??
http://www.me-cfsmethylation.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=182

Hi all.

In the past, a few PWCs have mentioned supplementing creatine, and some have reported benefits from doing that.

In the past, I had thought that supplemental creatine might provide benefit in terms of supplying more storage capacity for energetic phosphate, which the cells (particularly muscle cells) can use to regenerate ATP during times of high demand, such as a burst of physical activity. I didn't see any advantage over the longer term, though, because the ATP production rate would continue to be limited by the mitochondrial dysfunction, which I attribute fundamentally to glutathione depletion in CFS.

Well, now I've come to see some of this in a different light, in view of comments from Dr. Lee Cowden in his chapter of the new book by Connie Strasheim, Insights into Lyme Disease Treatment.

Dr. Cowden pointed out that since such a large fraction of the body's methylation is used to produce creatine, by supplementing creatine, some of the load can be taken off the methylation cycle so that more of the methylation can be used for other reactions. (Note that there are at least 50 known methylation reactions in the body, and it is thought that there are probably many more that have not yet been specifically identified.)

This could give temporary help to the methylation reactions until the methylation cycle can be brought up to normal.

Note that the other major user of methylation in the body (and perhaps the main one) is the formation of phosphatidylcholine from phosphatidylethanolamine, so supplying phos. choline as a supplement might help in this same way in terms of freeing up methylation capacity for other uses. Note also that there is some phos. choline in the phosphatidlyserine complex that is part of the protocol.

I don't know what dosages would be appropriate. As you may know, some bodybuilders and athletes take large quantities of creatine, in the range of several grams per day.

It's important that the kidney function be normal when taking creatine, in order that the resulting creatinine will be excreted in the urine.

Anecdotal reports of adverse effects to the FDA from taking creatine have included rash, shortness of breath, vomiting, diarrhea, nervousness, anxiety, migraine, fatigue, polymyositis, myopathy, seizures and atrial fibrillation. I don't know what dosages caused these adverse effects.

I would be interested to hear from PWCs who have tried taking creatine, as to what sorts of improvements they have noted from taking it, if any.

Thanks,

Rich

 

[xks201]

Took it when I was weight lifting prior to CFS - basic monohydrate. And it made me cramp like hell. The krealkalyn new stuff has a buffer in it so it absorbs better than monohydrate, which I do not recommend at all. It was fun watching my muscles inflate with water as I chugged a gallon of water though.

As for CFS I have found it not really helpful at all.

 

[heapsreal]

monohydrate creatine some did get nausea type issues, i never got cramping though. I used it pre cfs and it helped and used it a few years ago with some help, i think i stopped because i got sick of mixing it etc.
I just started using micronized creatine at 5-10grams a day, bodybuilders use doses of 25grams plus, thats probably what causes side effects and cramping etc i dont know, just having a shot at it as i slowly start exercising again and hoping it improves recovery from exercise.

cheer!!!

 

[Lotus97]

I'm going to be starting Creatine AKG soon. I bought mainly because I wanted AKG for ammonia detox, but also for boosting ATP. I'm concerned about possible dehydration associated with Creatine use. I already have dry mouth and I'm drinking a lot of water. I also found out today that I need to take Creatine because my Creatinine was low. This from Rich

Creatinine results from the nonenzymatic breakdown of creatine, which occurs at a constant rate. The creatinine level in the blood is set by a balance between the breakdown of creatine (mostly in the muscles and the brain) and the removal and excretion of creatinine from the blood by the kidneys. When creatinine is low in the blood, it indicates a low body inventory of creatine. (If it is high, it can be due to kidney disease.) Low creatine inventory can be caused by a low lean body (muscle) mass. In ME/CFS, I think it is more likely due to a low rate of production of creatine in the liver. A methylation reaction is needed to make creatine, and in fact, the synthesis of creatine is the biggest user of methyl groups of any methylation reaction in the body. So I suspect that your low creatinine level resulted from a partial block in the methylation cycle. If that is true, I think you will see an increase in this level as you do the methylation treatment.

There's a lot of different kinds of Creatine. Nutrabio sells pretty much all of them including Malate, AKG, Pyruvate, Ethyl Esther, Ethyl Esther Malate, Chelate, and regular old Monohydrate. The other forms are supposed to be more effective than Monohydrate. They also sell something called Extreme Nitric Stack which has 2 forms of Creatine and various amino acids for boosting NO (Nitric Oxide). I can't really vouch for the quality of Nutrabio's supplements, but the prices are good They also sell a lot amino acids.
http://www.nutrabio.com/Products/creatine.htm

 

[Skyline]

I have been meaning to look into creatine for a while now. Thanks for bringing these comments from Rich to light - I wasn't aware of them.