August 8th, 2018: Understanding and Remembrance Day for Severe ME
Have you heard of our Severe Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Day of Understanding and Remembrance? Please join Jody Smith in observing this day and honoring the 25% of those with ME/CFS who are most severely ill.
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Creatine as a way of reducing demand for SAMe

Discussion in 'Detox: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; Chelation' started by mgk, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes:
    289
    The examine.com page for creatine says:
    Has anyone tested this? It's especially appealing since creatine prices are much lower than a lot of the other supplements we're taking, probably owing to the fact that it's so popular with body builders.
     
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  2. drob31

    drob31 Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,330
    Likes:
    803
    I've been taking creatine non-stop for a while, and honestly it feels like I'm partially over methylated. MB12 makes me feel tired, but methylfolate seems to give me energy. I'm not sure what to make of it.
     
  3. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes:
    289
    If this creatine theory is correct, I think you would have a greater neurological response per unit dose of the methylation supplements compared to someone who isn't supplementing with creatine since more of the methylation byproducts would be used for purposes other than replenishing creatine.

    What doses of mb12 and mfolate are you taking? Also have you started adb12 and LCF yet?
     
  4. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes:
    3,929
    Would this - higher creatin endogenous synthesis - be the reason why some people (myself, @Sidereal ) get high uric acid from methylation? Of course there is a glitch down that path causing uric acid accumulation (lead?).
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
  5. Sherpa

    Sherpa Ex-workaholic adrenaline junkie

    Messages:
    628
    Likes:
    792
    USA
    I have tried supplementing with low doses (500mg) of Creatine MagnaPower occasionally... and it seems to support muscle recovery during exertion.
     
    mgk and Gondwanaland like this.
  6. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes:
    3,929
    melamine, mgk and Sherpa like this.
  7. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes:
    289
    I think it's one of the reasons. Take a look at this study (emphasis mine):

    Relation between creatinine and uric acid excretion.
    If I understood this correctly, even if creatine supplementation would reduce endogenous creatine synthesis, it may not reduce uric acid levels because dietary creatine intake also ends up creating uric acid. I don't know if one reaction creates significantly less uric acid than the other though. That's an interesting question.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  8. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes:
    289
    Thanks for bringing this up. There seem to be conflicting reports about it on different sites. Even the wiki page seems to be all over the place:
    Regardless, I think we can all agree that if you have kidney issues, it would be prudent to consult a doctor before trying it.

    I also want to mention that a lot of these reports are addressing creatine use for athletic performance enhancement, which calls for doses much higher than what you would find in a typical diet. The recommended dose is usually 5g/day, which is the amount you would get from eating about 2 pounds of beef (~1kg).

    For our purposes, reducing the demand on SAMe, we're talking about much lower doses. According to this article, estimates put creatine intake from food at about 1g for men and 0.6g for women. That covers about half of the body's daily creatine needs. The other half needs to be synthesized. So supplementing with even 500mg (1/10 the recommended dose) could reduce SAMe demand significantly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
    Gondwanaland likes this.
  9. Gondwanaland

    Gondwanaland Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes:
    3,929
    I am really tempted to try it :nervous:
     
  10. melamine

    melamine

    Messages:
    341
    Likes:
    376
    Upstate NY
    I felt overly-cautious when trying creatine because of previous chronic kidney disease (CKD). I was reading on another thread here that mild CKD is considered yet another possible associated condition of ME. Like others, mine has varied. The year it was first tested it was mild to moderately reduced. It came into normal range a year or two later and has pretty much stayed there, though probably in the borderline area of normal.

    To the extent that I had experimented with creatine I never noticed any effect.
     
    mgk and Gondwanaland like this.
  11. Sherlock

    Sherlock Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing

    Messages:
    1,287
    Likes:
    767
    Boswellia, USA
    Here is what the tried-and-true creatine monohydrate experience is like out in the normal world:
    Normal daily dose is 5g, but you can start with a divided loading dose of 20g/day or so. You take it on an empty stomach with something to provoke an insulin response, like sugar (grape juice was traditionally recommended).

    It needs to be thoroughly dissolved in hot water, else creatine crystals get unabsorbed by you - but they can get utilized by colon bacteria which create gas. The longer it then sits, the more turns to creatinine, which is why there shouldn't be premade drinks (but such drinks are sold if people will wrongly buy them).

    Drink with lots of water to avoid headaches. For 2 days or so, you notice nothing much. The next day you might gain a pound of water. The day after that, maybe two pounds. All in all, a ~200 pound person might gain 7-10 pounds of water in a week, which is intracellular so BP should not rise. You also get noticeably stronger, maybe by 5-10%.

    People who don't gain the weight are non-responders or else they hadn't taken it correctly, or have not taken enough.

    More expensive forms have consistently proven to have no extra benefit, except for generating money for the sellers.
     
    melamine likes this.
  12. mgk

    mgk Senior Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes:
    289
    I found a study on this which suggests that it actually works, though the dose they used is higher than I guessed.

    Oral creatine supplements lower plasma homocysteine concentrations in humans.
    I couldn't find the actual amount of creatine they took in grams, but based on this page, the normal range of creatinine excretion is about 1000mg-2000mg for men and 700mg-1300mg for women. So in the study they probably supplemented about 2000mg-4000mg for men and 1400mg-2600mg for women.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2015
    echobravo, Tunguska and Sherlock like this.
  13. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,214
    Likes:
    709
    Arizona, USA
    I have not tested this, but my own response to 5 g creatine once or twice a day (following lab results showing lower than usual creatinine) was an 18% increase in physical performance after 5 days of supplementation. I was used to doing a loop course in Southern California, up one canyon, across a ridge, and down another canyon, 5.1 miles. And since I was participating in a fitness/wellness program at work, I knew it was reliably 100 minutes, with almost no variation. After 2 days, I did it in 88 minutes. After 5 days, in 82 minutes.
    I have the MTRR +/+ in my signature, and the BHMT 08 +/+, so in terms of methylation, I have a double-whammy affecting my production of Me/SAMe. I'm not saying that my lack of SAMe led to a lack of creatine, and therefore a lack of methylation products (and obviously muscle power), but you could probably weave a plausible story out of it. Also, I didn't notice the water gain, but there was a drastic improvement in my performance.
     
    melamine and mgk like this.
  14. Tunguska

    Tunguska Senior Member

    Messages:
    516
    Likes:
    499
    I was hoping it would do something for brain fog etc. at the time, but it only helped with exercise tolerance. This was a few rounds of micronized creatine (only bought because pharmaceutical grade). I'm interested in the idea it could relieve methylation but looks subtle. Was interesting in it again because bodybuilders suggest it synergizes with d-ribose for ATP. Seems like a perfect substance for CFS on paper but then there's reality.
     
    melamine likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page