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Coyne - What it takes for Queen Mary to declare a request for scientific data “vexatious”

Kati

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
ahimsa said:
Sorry that happened! I have no idea why. My twitter account is not used as much. I've definitely never had it suspended. I don't think anyone has complained about me but not sure whether I'd know.

I have gotten followed or re-tweeted by porn accounts (sigh). And not just soft core porn but videos of .... well, use your imagination. I found this out by going to look at who followed or re-tweeted me.

Why me? I'm clueless. One time it was in response to the Van Ness video about 2-day CPET, exercise testing - maybe exercise was a keyword? Who knows? Maybe they just spam everyone/anyone who is remotely active? And others don't notice?

Anyway, my first reaction was to report them all. It's not an easy, straightforward process. You can't just click on the account's profile or on a single tweet. That will just get it marked as sensitive or something like that. You have to go somewhere on the twitter support page (forgot all the details) to actually report them. Then hope the twitter folks will eventually suspend the account (they did a couple of times). It's a lot of hassle so these days I just block the accounts.

This is a long-winded way of saying that it's a pretty long and deliberate process to get a twitter account suspended.

Someone would have to be pretty motivated to do it. Who on earth would do that to your account and why???
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Fyi i strongly suspect a UKUniversity complained since i have been tweeting about them a fair bit.
 
SOC

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Kati said:
Fyi i strongly suspect a UKUniversity complained since i have been tweeting about them a fair bit.
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I suspect you may be correct. But if so, that's seriously low behavior. AFAIK, you said nothing hostile, libelous, or even untrue, so if they're trying to shut you down it's only because they think it's okay to stifle disagreement. That's a frightening attitude for a university.

I have to hope that your Twitter shutdown was a technical glitch, because if it was a deliberate tactic this whole thing has gone far beyond a difference of opinion about the nature of a disease and into a bizarre world of mega-power plays and speech control. :jaw-drop::eek:

Is there a way you can ask Twitter why your account was shut down temporarily? If someone complained about you unjustly, I'd say you have a right to know.
 
Kati

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
SOC said:
I suspect you may be correct. But if so, that's seriously low behavior. AFAIK, you said nothing hostile, libelous, or even untrue, so if they're trying to shut you down it's only because they think it's okay to stifle disagreement. That's a frightening attitude for a university.

I have to hope that your Twitter shutdown was a technical glitch, because if it was a deliberate tactic this whole thing has gone far beyond a difference of opinion about the nature of a disease and into a bizarre world of mega-power plays and speech control. :jaw-drop::eek:

Is there a way you can ask Twitter why your account was shut down temporarily? If someone complained about you unjustly, I'd say you have a right to know.
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Twitter is like Facebook: they don't have a help desk per say. I have a little experience with that. They made me verify my account, they made me read their terms of condition and th at was that.

It makes me realize what is really at stake here. We are fighting a beast.

Edit to add: @WeselyS blocked my on twitter. i have only sparingly interacted with them man. He must see me as vexatious. Ah well. There are all the other sciencists, not those already groomed by Wessely and Co. Who needs to know about what's going on.
 
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beaker

beaker

ME/cfs 1986
Messages
773
Location
USA
Kati said:
Twitter is like Facebook: they don't have a help desk per say. I have a little experience with that. They made me verify my account, they made me read their terms of condition and th at was that.

It makes me realize what is really at stake here. We are fighting a beast.

Edit to add: @WeselyS blocked my on twitter. i have only sparingly interacted with them man. He must see me as vexatious. Ah well. There are all the other sciencists, not those already groomed by Wessely and Co. Who needs to know about what's going on.
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Sorry about the suspension. I hope it is straightened out toot suite.
As for being blocked by SW, I'd consider that a compliment : )
Go Kati !
 
Kati

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
SOC said:
You've just be promoted to Power Player in this game. :p :thumbsup:
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It means I touched a chord, doesn't it? This picture must have been too vexatious

image.jpg
 
SOC

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
Kati said:
It means I touched a chord, doesn't it? This picture must have been too vexatious

View attachment 13916
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I can imagine he didn't like that one. :p

Well, no loss that SW is officially not listening to you. I strongly suspect he never was listening to you, even if he actually read your tweets.

How vexatious of you to have an opinion different from his... and go so far as to actually... gasp!.. state that opinion in public! How dare you!
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
At that link you can read how he eggs his followers on, saying the following:

However, that doesn’t mean that you can’t have some fun. I am totally into the idea that you lot represent some kind of sinister organised underground force for good
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So in 2006 he's fantasizing about leading a bunch of vociferous militants ... Hypocrisy doesn't even begin to describe it.

I don't suppose he sent any death-threats while he was at it perchance?
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
Cheshire said:
which reaches the unreasonable and deterrent price of￡450!:eek:
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After reading the Ben Goldacre link above I've finally got why they said 450:
In determining that these requests are vexatious we also had regard to what appeared to be the purposes of these requests, which became evident from comments in the emails themselves and on the Bad Science website:
· As an attempt to circumvent the Fees Regulations, as Ben Goldacre’s second FOI request had been refused as the cost of complying exceeded the appropriate limit of £450.
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So if there is an appropriate limit of 450, that's what surprise surprise QM say it will cost them.

Section 14(1) of the FOI Act states that:
“Section 1(1) does not oblige a public authority to comply with a request for information if the request is vexatious.
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By the same token, that's why QM calls us vexatious.

Basically trawl the FOI Act, find out what the exceptions are, and claim we fit into as many categories as possible. If the FOI Act said no requests need be considered from a three-headed penguin, QM would be claiming in all seriousness that we are three-headed penguins, and Sir Simon Spoonbender would be saying he feels safer on the fringes of Antarctica because they only have one-headed penguins there.
 
Large Donner

Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
Puzzled why request for PLOS data should be considered under freedom of information. Gave themselves until midnight.
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Maybe it gives them more room to refuse release and claim it was "just out of their hands cos it was vexatious, would reveal patients identity, or would cost more than £450".
 
alex3619

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Large Donner said:
Maybe it gives them more room to refuse release and claim it was "just out of their hands cos it was vexatious, would reveal patients identity, or would cost more than £450".
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Yet this immediately invokes a failure to comply with the publishing requirements. So the paper can then be retracted, at least in principle. Its not an FOI request, its an obligation.
 
Y

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
Where is the PLOS PACE data? Been waiting all day and it has passed 6pm GMT. Maybe they are going to string us out to midnight as technically they had 20 working days.

Why did they treat it as FOI? Could James Coyne not have refuted that and said he wants it under PLOS data policy? I don't understand?

Also did Coyne ask for all data or only some of it that was published in PLOS? (Sorry so much happening that can't keep up)
 
Y

Yogi

Senior Member
Messages
1,132
Thanks for clarifying. So just for this small amount of data they are dragging their feet . This is just so .......eh ....vexatious?

Regarding the main request that the ICO upheld in October but they refused to provide and are going to court/tribunal. Will our claimant have legal representation? If not should we crowd-fund this? It really is important that we win that one given the last tribunal was lost. It would also set a precedent. Presumably if we win the legal fees would be recoverable like any other case - is that right for a FOI.

I don't think any court would dismiss us as vexatious if that claimant shows that the 6 experts from the US who have also called for independent analysis after Tullers investigation.

Does anybody know about whether both sides will have lawyer?
 
W

worldbackwards

Senior Member
Messages
2,051
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