Cortene Peptide for MECFS? "Curative"?!

[Cort]

@Cort , would it be correct to say that another one of the big differences between SSRI's and CT38 is that SSRI's seek to ameliorate depression by moderately increasing serotonin via blocking its reuptake, whereas CT 38 - being an CRF2 agonist - seeks to spike serotinin much higher in an effort to trip the desensitized 5HT1A auto-receptors, which are responsible for causing the CRF2 receptors to internalize, thereby turning off ME/CFS. This would explain why lower doses of CT38 cause 'ME/CFS-like' symptoms, but higher doses would theoretically turn them off.

I think that's right

 

[nanonug]

From https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/144/11/4939/2880825

"The CRF2R-selective agonist human urocortin II was synthesized at Procter & Gamble Pharmaceuticals (Mason, OH)"

From Cort's blog:

"Sometime before, he’d come across an intriguing drug (CT38) being developed by the pharmaceutical division of Proctor & Gamble. CT38 prevented muscle wasting in animals, and it had been through a Phase 1 clinical trial and tested safe in healthy humans. Despite the promising test results, after Proctor & Gamble decided to exit the drug industry entirely, CT38 was left available for licensing. [...] Pereira was at a cocktail party discussing his drug with a well-known Stanford doctor, who was talking about some immune findings in a strange disease called ME/CFS. Pereira had not heard of the disease before, but the immune findings, and ME/CFS in general, seemed eerily reminiscent of the data he’d seen produced for CT38."

Based on this and previews posts, I think there is a very high probably that CT38 is indeed urocortin II.

I've started a new thread whose purpose is to "dissect" available knowledge about urocortin II and if and/or how it might be of use for people with SEID: What do we know about CT38/Urocortin II?

 

[perrier]

So, in case I missed the info somehow, when will this drug actually be tried on people?

And as it will be with the Bateman centre, would we learn about how things are going, or will it be closed like Rituximab

 

[Cort]

So, in case I missed the info somehow, when will this drug actually be tried on people?

And as it will be with the Bateman centre, would we learn about how things are going, or will it be closed like Rituximab

It will be done on ME/CFS patients only. The beginning of the trial will be announced in a blog and at the end of the trial Cortene has informed me that the results will be disclosed. My understanding is that it will not take long to get the results...

 

[Cort]

From https://academic.oup.com/endo/article/144/11/4939/2880825

"The CRF2R-selective agonist human urocortin II was synthesized at Procter & Gamble Pharmaceuticals (Mason, OH)"

From Cort's blog:

"Sometime before, he’d come across an intriguing drug (CT38) being developed by the pharmaceutical division of Proctor & Gamble. CT38 prevented muscle wasting in animals, and it had been through a Phase 1 clinical trial and tested safe in healthy humans. Despite the promising test results, after Proctor & Gamble decided to exit the drug industry entirely, CT38 was left available for licensing. [...] Pereira was at a cocktail party discussing his drug with a well-known Stanford doctor, who was talking about some immune findings in a strange disease called ME/CFS. Pereira had not heard of the disease before, but the immune findings, and ME/CFS in general, seemed eerily reminiscent of the data he’d seen produced for CT38."

Based on this and previews posts, I think there is a very high probably that CT38 is indeed urocortin II.

I've started a new thread whose purpose is to "dissect" available knowledge about urocortin II and if and/or how it might be of use for people with SEID: What do we know about CT38/Urocortin II?

Interesting. Good hunting! I have no idea actually.

 

[PinkPanda]

Although I think it's good that drugs are being tested for ME/CFS, I don't see this drug affecting some of the core issues of ME/CFS. So I would try not to get my hopes up too much.

I think the strong stress reaction that can be seen in ME/CFS is rather result of low energy levels and low methylation than a cause. Stress transmitters can increase the energy metabolism, adrenaline for example increases conversion of glycogen to glucose and triglyceride/fat breakdown. An increased stress reaction might be the attempt of the body to compensate for low energy levels when requirements rise.

I don't see a drug that influences the hpa-axis being able to raise the low citric acid cycle function and pyruvate dehydrogenase activity that have been detected in ME/CFS.

 

[Fuluf]

A rash can appear after longer term use, but for a HPA-axis reset, you only need to take mifepristone for a few days. Quite a few studies have tested mifepristone as a depression treatment, and I did not see mention of any significant risks.

Hello!

Have you tried mifepristone by any chance yet? What do you think would be the best regimen - 600mg a day for 4-7 days as in studies with depression? What do you think about it antiandrogenic activity - any possible long term complications from such short term use? Any info will be appreciated

 

[Hip]

Have you tried mifepristone by any chance yet?

I took a 250 mg test dose of mifepristone 9 days ago, and unfortunately developed substantial psychiatric side effects from it (including extreme irritability for one day, then followed by some mild psychosis for about 5 days, then some depression). It's been a pretty unpleasant experience. I also found it much harder to get to sleep, and have been more tired than usual in these last 9 days.

However, I often tend to get neuropsychological side effects from drugs and sometimes supplements, so this type of response to a drug is not unusual for me. These psychiatric side effects may not occur in ME/CFS patients with more robust mental health.

I seem to be recovering from these side effects now; so if there are going to be any benefits from this single dose of ME/CFS, I would expect them to appear in the following days and weeks. I will keep you informed if any benefits appear.

I don't think I will be brave enough to take another dose of mifepristone after that unpleasant experience, except perhaps at a much lower dose. I previously tried a single 100 mg dose some months ago, and did not experience any side effects from that.

 

[Fuluf]

I took a 250 mg test dose of mifepristone 9 days ago, and unfortunately developed substantial psychiatric side effects from it (including extreme irritability for one day, then followed by some mild psychosis for about 5 days, then some depression). It's been a pretty unpleasant experience. I also found it much harder to get to sleep, and have been more tired than usual in these last 9 days.

Thank you for the reply. Hmm that's quite unsettling as my system is also very fragile, even walking can get my HPA axis in overdrive. Have you performed any corticosteroid related tests before? Saliva cortisol levels for example? If not what do you think you are on high or low side of it? Because I have 2 fold increased (from max) daytime cortisol.

 

[Hip]

Hmm that's quite unsettling as my system is also very fragile, even walking can get my HPA axis in overdrive.

I did not experience any physical side effects, nor any side effects related to my ME/CFS symptoms, apart from mildly increased fatigue. It was just mental health side effects, which I often get when testing out new drugs.

Have you performed any corticosteroid related tests before? Saliva cortisol levels for example? If not what do you think you are on high or low side of it?

I have not tested for cortisol levels, and am not sure how I would gauge my cortisol levels by symptoms. Studies show ME/CFS patients usually tend to have low cortisol, so my guess is that I will be low.

 

[Ema]

I took a 250 mg test dose of mifepristone 9 days ago, and unfortunately developed substantial psychiatric side effects from it (including extreme irritability for one day, then followed by some mild psychosis for about 5 days, then some depression). It's been a pretty unpleasant experience. I also found it much harder to get to sleep, and have been more tired than usual in these last 9 days.

However, I often tend to get neuropsychological side effects from drugs and sometimes supplements, so this type of response to a drug is not unusual for me. These psychiatric side effects may not occur in ME/CFS patients with more robust mental health.

I seem to be recovering from these side effects now; so if there are going to be any benefits from this single dose of ME/CFS, I would expect them to appear in the following days and weeks. I will keep you informed if any benefits appear.

I don't think I will be brave enough to take another dose of mifepristone after that unpleasant experience, except perhaps at a much lower dose. I previously tried a single 100 mg dose some months ago, and did not experience any side effects from that.

That sounds horrible, @Hip! I’m glad the worst seems to be over...and hoping some benefits appear!

 

[Hopeful1976]

Any updates yet?

 

[JES]

Any updates yet?

They still have yet to start the phase 2 trial, so it will be long before we see any significant new results. For comparison, Fluge/Mella discovered Rituximab as potentially useful for CFS/ME in 2004 and it took until 2017 to complete phase 3. Luckily some phase 1 studies on this peptide had already been performed earlier, so I believe we don't need to wait 13 years to see the results, but years still for sure.

 

[neweimear]

We will know by the end of this year whether it works or not in the first trial on ME patients. If it does, great!! It could take a few years to get it to market but I imagine it could be speeded up as we have no fda approved drug for ME. Hold tight is all we can do.

 

[Hopeful1976]

They still have yet to start the phase 2 trial, so it will be long before we see any significant new results. For comparison, Fluge/Mella discovered Rituximab as potentially useful for CFS/ME in 2004 and it took until 2017 to complete phase 3. Luckily some phase 1 studies on this peptide had already been performed earlier, so I believe we don't need to wait 13 years to see the results, but years still for sure.

Oh my, that's awful news. I was under the impression that it would be this year that some news would be available.
I'll just go hide in my hole again then

 

[neweimear]

I would say somewhere between a two and five year time frame

 

[tiredowl]

I wish there was a way to get this already. Can this be purchased online at selleckchem?

 

[madone]

http://shop.bachem.com/h-5852.html

 

[Ema]

I wish there was a way to get this already. Can this be purchased online at selleckchem?

Even if it could, we don’t know the appropriate dosing or how best it is administered (IV, oral, etc).

 

[tiredowl]

Even if it could, we don’t know the appropriate dosing or how best it is administered (IV, oral, etc).

True, it would be quite risky to try and dosage yourself.