• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Copper dysregulation

undcvr

Senior Member
Messages
822
Location
NYC
Does anyone know how copper is related to methylation and/or SAMe? I have read somewhere that it raises homo cysteine levels but it does not seem to be a good study. Could Cu be supporting some enzyme production involved in methylation?
 
Last edited:

NotThisGuy

Senior Member
Messages
312
Does anyone know how copper is related to methylation and/or SAMe? I have read somewhere that it raises homo cysteine levels but it does not seem to be a good study. Could Cu be supporting some enzyme production involved in methylation?
yeah copper is needed for methylation but i forgot in which step exactly :D

i found this in my quick research and it says copper regulates or is needed for s-adenosylhomocysteine hydrolase and methionine synthase

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18472229

@Freddd also needed lots of copper for his methylation protocol
 
Messages
9
I also have copper dysregulation. Although when I start taking copper even 2mg a day my peripheral neuropathy in the right leg and right knee and hip joint pain significantly increases. I also become more irritable. Should I push through it?
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
I also have copper dysregulation. Although when I start taking copper even 2mg a day my peripheral neuropathy in the right leg and right knee and hip joint pain significantly increases. I also become more irritable. Should I push through it?
It seems that copper supplementation doesn't give you any benefits.
 
Messages
9
It seems that copper supplementation doesn't give you any benefits.
But I show signs of copper deficiency all my life and my serum is low. I have ridges on my fingernails and that maybe lack of copper as well.
 

Attachments

  • 20180719_160714.jpg
    20180719_160714.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 84

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
But I show signs of copper deficiency all my life and my serum is low. I have ridges on my fingernails and that maybe lack of copper as well.
I think my ridges are worse than yours and I can't tolerate copper supplements at all, unless occasionally in the recommnended proportion to zinc and selenium.

BTW I never read that nail ridges are caused by low copper, rather by low zinc instead.
 
Messages
9
I think my ridges are worse than yours and I can't tolerate copper supplements at all, unless occasionally in the recommnended proportion to zinc and selenium.

BTW I never read that nail ridges are caused by low copper, rather by low zinc instead.

What adverse effects you have from taking copper?

Well our knowledge on copper is very limited and yes ridges are usually caused by low zinc but I believe copper has a role in it too.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
I also have copper dysregulation. Although when I start taking copper even 2mg a day my peripheral neuropathy in the right leg and right knee and hip joint pain significantly increases. I also become more irritable. Should I push through it?

How long have you been taking copper ? If the neuropathy and joint pain are due to copper deficiency, it may take months to improve.

Also, pain can temporarily worsen before it gets better. With copper deficiency, iron accumulates in organs and joints, along with calcium.

Anything that mobilizes iron, which copper does, along with retinol, choline, B6, other B's, etc. will cause some discomfort, pain, inflammation for a time.

I've read that copper can lower gaba production. That could also make somebody irritable, along with excess iron moving around.
 
Messages
9
How long have you been taking copper ? If the neuropathy and joint pain are due to copper deficiency, it may take months to improve.

Also, pain can temporarily worsen before it gets better. With copper deficiency, iron accumulates in organs and joints, along with calcium.

Anything that mobilizes iron, which copper does, along with retinol, choline, B6, other B's, etc. will cause some discomfort, pain, inflammation for a time.

I've read that copper can lower gaba production. That could also make somebody irritable, along with excess iron moving around.

Well I always discontinued after few days because of joint pain. I thought I was getting copper toxicity.

But my copper was on lower range and I ve unstoppable decay of my teeth, I have brittle nails and hairs and basically all symptoms of copper deficiency.

I have sciatica/neuropathy in my right leg and only high dose of methylfolate seems to help with it by decreasing inflammation in there.

I'm also having again sleep disorders and hypersensitivity to sounds which was cleared up by MeB12 and Methylfolate before so Im wondering If that is caused by copper deficiency as well.

So I may try to take copper for longer period and push through the joint pain and see If it gets better. It would be miracle because I can't even sit because of that pain in sciatic nerve.
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
It's unfortunate that we're made to fear copper....

MeB12 helped my neuropathy and sciatica.

Copper enzymes will help teeth and bones, but that takes a lot of time.

I've been having a lot of trouble with teeth and bones. I'm back to taking lactoferrin for that, along with copper. Lactoferrin is protective of Ceruloplasmin, a copper protein. It can also chelate copper, so it's good to have both.

Lowering inflammation has helped my sleep. Infections were the main cause. Copper, Retinol, and Lactoferrin have been the most effective, for me at least.
 
Messages
9
It's unfortunate that we're made to fear copper....

MeB12 helped my neuropathy and sciatica.

Copper enzymes will help teeth and bones, but that takes a lot of time.

I've been having a lot of trouble with teeth and bones. I'm back to taking lactoferrin for that, along with copper. Lactoferrin is protective of Ceruloplasmin, a copper protein. It can also chelate copper, so it's good to have both.

Lowering inflammation has helped my sleep. Infections were the main cause. Copper, Retinol, and Lactoferrin have been the most effective, for me at least.

At first when I started with MeB12 and methylfolate my sciatica and neuropathy were gone but it came back with other B12 deficiency symptoms.

I will try to titrate copper slowly and see how that goes. I'm glad you could lower your inflammation and make copper work for you. How much copper a day you take?
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
At first when I started with MeB12 and methylfolate my sciatica and neuropathy were gone but it came back with other B12 deficiency symptoms.

Same here, but then I had to take more and more of MeB12, up to 20 mg. daily. In the past 2 years, I've learned that the cobalt in b12 competes with iron for absorption in the intestines. I have iron overload, which can also cause nerve damage, so I believe the b12 was helping in that way.

I will try to titrate copper slowly and see how that goes. I'm glad you could lower your inflammation and make copper work for you. How much copper a day you take?

When I startedcopper supps.I was taking 4 mg. of copper glycinate. After a couple of months, I dropped to 2mg. daily. Now, after almost 2 yrs. I've stopped the supps. , but I eat a lot of cocoa, unsweetened chocolate, nuts, and mushrooms. Seems to work.
 

DogLover

Senior Member
Messages
187
Can someone explain what taking molybdenum does for copper regulation in layman's terms? I've searched google and can't tell whether it dislocates it from tissue or gets it out of the blood.
 

Kadar

Senior Member
Messages
156
@Methyl90
Yes. Btw, I noticed that synthetic form of retinol (palmitate/acetate) makes me feel my vitamin A deficiency worse. So now I only use fish retinol /cod liver oil. Be careful
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,100
I think you are putting a misleading slant on the role of histidine, implying that the amino acid per se is doing all these things.

It is certainly true that histidine plays an important role in maintaining the co-ordinate bonds which attach metals to metalloproteins, but it performs these functions as part of the three dimensional structure of the protein.

Histidine supplementation (whether direct or indirect through carnosine) might be helpful if there is dietary deficiency but it will exert these beneficial effects once it is incorporated into protein.



Do you have any evidence for this statement?

I did read the reference you linked and a reference linked in the link, but these are simply characterising the nature of the copper-histidine bond in vitro, nothing to do with the amino acid acting in vivo as a copper shuttle.
sorry for jumping years later into this. but i find this copper histidine connection interesting because that i can supplement where as coeruluplasmin i cant.

i get bad intoxification effects from copper despite being deficient in copper, coeruluplasmin and even hair mineral analysis shows low normal levels of copper. that looks like a clear deficiency to me, but body still doesnt want it.
i suppose its not getting bound to anything and causing damage. my hope is that histidin binds it and helps make it useful.


chatgpt has to say about copper and histidine:
Copper and histidine have a significant connection in biological systems. Histidine is an amino acid that contains an imidazole group, which can bind to metal ions like copper. Copper, on the other hand, is an essential trace element that plays a vital role in various biological processes.

In proteins, histidine residues often serve as ligands for copper ions, coordinating with the copper atom through the imidazole nitrogen atoms. This coordination helps stabilize the copper ion within the protein structure and allows it to participate in specific enzymatic reactions.

One well-known example is the copper-binding protein ceruloplasmin, which contains multiple histidine residues that coordinate with copper. Ceruloplasmin is involved in transporting and oxidizing iron, as well as protecting against oxidative damage. The copper ions bound to histidine residues in ceruloplasmin facilitate its enzymatic activity.

In addition to ceruloplasmin, copper-dependent enzymes such as copper/zinc superoxide dismutase (SOD1) and dopamine β-monooxygenase also utilize histidine residues to coordinate copper ions and carry out their respective functions.

Overall, the interaction between copper and histidine is crucial for the proper functioning of various copper-containing proteins and enzymes in biological systems.