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Consume sodium bicarbonate without exercise?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by SmokinJoeFraz93, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93

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    I’m one of many with CFS that is completely exercise intolerant, and my body is full of lactic acid, from my head down to my feet.

    I’ve come across a post that explains the mechanisms sodium bicarbonate and how it acts as a buffer to reduce lactic acid.

    Is it possible to take this supplement without exercising? Obviously I’m unable to exercise, but my entire body is riddled with lactic acid.

    Thanks.
     
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  2. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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    I'm 95% bedridden, don't exercise and find benefit from taking baking soda every day. It's clearing something daily and I think that something is lactic acid.

    I had to start at a very low dose and slowly work up though.
     
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  3. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93

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    I’m so sorry to hear that. Thank you for the reply.

    I take D-Ribose & L-carnitine. I’m not seeing any improvements really. How much should I start off with the sodium bicarbonate?
     
  4. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    Did you have your lactate levels checked ? I also thought I had high levels of lactic acid in my muscles, but it turns out I don't. I had my levels checked before and after exercising when I did my 2 day CPET test and they were normal. So my problem must be at the mitochondria level.
     
  5. shannah

    shannah Senior Member

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    I did quite a bit of research before I started but can't remember a lot of what I learned right now. I do recall reading that older people swear by it and some drink 1 - 2 tbsp in a glass of water.

    I think I started with 1/4 teaspoon a couple of years ago. To keep any detox effects down to a minimum, I only increase tiny amounts every few days. I actually use a scale to weigh it out and increase 1 mg at a time.
     
  6. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93

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    I haven’t I’m afraid. I’m totally aware that the problem lays within the mitochondria, and the lactic acid is a byproduct because of the shift in energy metabolism?
     
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  7. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Hibernating

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    Consuming Sodium Bicarbonate is a quack therapy.

    There seems to be a mistaken idea that anything you consume will magically turn up in your blood. Biochemistry isn't that simple. There is a long way between your mouth and your peripheral tissues. Many oral drugs are taken as pro-drugs - the oral form is not the same and the drug gets converted by the body itself.

    Ingestion of bicarb soda is dangerous as it reacts with the acid in your stomach:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6090255
     
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  8. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member

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    The lactic acid is a by-product of using the anaerobic pathway. But as I said, in my case, it appears the dreaded feeling in all my muscles has nothing to do with lactic acid. Why is why I was asking that question. Maybe your problem isn't lactic acid either.
     
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  9. bombsh3ll

    bombsh3ll Senior Member

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    I tried sodium bicarbonate powder added to water due to a slightly different theory possibly along the same lines - that it would increase CO2 levels in the blood, hence increasing blood flow and oxygenation to the brain and other tissues (similar to exercise in a healthy person).

    Unfortunately it did nothing for me and tasted quite unpleasant despite adding diluting juice to the water, so I stopped.

    If anyone does find themselves with a surplus supply of sodium bicarbonate powder like me having tried this, don't throw it away - it can be added to your laundry and does help get the stains out.
     
  10. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    Many athletes use sodium bicarbonate to give them an edge.(Need link, but haven't one to hand just now ;) )

    I have used sodium bicarbonate on days I know I will be busier, but it is best taken between meals so as not to interfere with stomach acid. Athletes apparently use high doses 45 minutes prior to the expected exertion for best effect, and it can apparently give them an edge for fast spurts of exertion.

    Remarkably I have also found bicarb useful when made into a rub with water and oil and rubbed directly onto the affected muscles. This I like for the after-burn aches.

    I first used bicarb to help with migraine issues many years ago, and so when it was suggested for muscle acid burn re ME I started to use it for that too.

    It is a salt, so I found it also helped - substantially - with my ability to remain upright for periods of time.

    Please note - I wasn't aware of this use of bicarb when I was at my most ill. I am now on my feet again and in a partial remission where my PEM is less severe, so allowing me to do an amount of exertion that will occasionally test my aerobic system for a minute or so. Bicarb helps me to be less out of breath during these moments.
     
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  11. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    Totally agree on the taste issue - it tastes VILE!
     
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  12. lafarfelue

    lafarfelue Senior Member

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    I... don't mind the taste so much..? :confused::woot:

    I'm exercise intolerant and take bicarb soda when I start feeling the muscle ache and deep bone and joint aches coming on. It takes the edge off.

    Interesting that you mentioned it's a salt @Keela Too ... I started taking it before I was diagnosed with POTS, and noticed it helped generally (obviously without knowing what it was doing and why), as well as with reducing myalgia.

    I'm happy to keep taking it when I feel I need to (1/4 TSP in 1L, drunk normally through the day seems to work best for me, rather than loading around meals?). Even if it's a placebo, it helps me feel better! I'll take any of that that I can!
     
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  13. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    You can do, but even small amounts of sodium bicarbonate (eg, a quarter of a teaspoon daily) will have potent alkalizing effects in the body, so you will in effect be doing something akin to an alkalizing diet when you take sodium bicarbonate daily. I have read some reports of alkalizing helping ME/CFS, though.

    If you take sodium bicarbonate, it's best to take away from meals, otherwise it will neutralize the acid in your stomach that is used for digestion.

    There are also several other supplements that have been shown to reduce exercise-induced lactic acid levels: see this post and this thread.
     
  14. Adamm

    Adamm

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    Hopefully there is not some other side effects we dont know about from trying to alkalize thebody. would be hard to measure if you've gone too far.
     
  15. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    I don't either - I didn't like it much at first but soon got used to it.

    I think that paper that @Snow Leopard quotes is rather old and speculative. There are a lot more recent ones measuring effects on athletes, for example, which seem to show benefit. (Sorry but I can't quote any right now but I think I have quoted some in another thread.)
     
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  16. MeSci

    MeSci ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?

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    Here's a link to a post in which I found great benefit on one occasion when I took sodium bicarbonate:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...hibited-in-severe-me.40087/page-2#post-644483

    Here is one where I got worse after stopping the bicarb: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/baking-soda.28084/#post-618553

    This post is the most thorough by the look of it:

    http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...o-pem-after-exercise.34446/page-4#post-539778

    To clarify - I take it now - 2 to 4 teaspoons in water a day. If I don't burp soon after taking it, I assume that I haven't had enough, but I'm not sure if this is reliable!
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  17. trishrhymes

    trishrhymes Senior Member

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    I'm not sure I get the point of taking sodium bicarbonate. Surely it just undergoes the following reaction in the stomach:

    Sodium bicarbonate + hydrochloric acid (stomach acid) = sodium chloride (common salt) + carbon dioxide (gas - causes burping) + water.

    So the net result is salt and burps.

    Why not just take salt?
     
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  18. SmokinJoeFraz93

    SmokinJoeFraz93

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    Maybe it's not. Isn't it a lack of blood oxygen or something?
     
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  19. Keela Too

    Keela Too Sally Burch

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    Not all of the bicarb will be reacted with HCl in the stomach. Especially if you take it between meals.

    So a good portion of it will travel through into the small intestine where it will be absorbed. Sure it will also be gradually removed via the kidneys, but in the mean time it is likely to travel the blood and be available to neutralise acid by products.
     
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  20. Mary

    Mary Forum Support Assistant

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    Actually burping (or not) after taking baking soda is supposed to be an indication of stomach acid or lack there. You're supposed to take 1/4 tsp baking soda in 8 oz of water on an empty stomach and if you don't burp within a few minutes, it's an indication of low stomach acid. This follows along with @trishrhymes equation - if there's no stomach acid, there won't be any burps.
     
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