Confused about folate deficiency symptoms

[LynnJ]

I'm a little confused about the symptoms one experiences when they have a folate deficiency. I believe I may be deficient after taking a diuretic for a number of years, which is (I guess) not uncommon. My doctor didn't inform me that this could happen.

Can a folate deficiency cause muscle aches/nerve pain, as well as neuropathy-like symptoms in the hands and/or feet? I'm reading some conflicting things and finding it hard to get a straight answer on this. I'm trying to figure out exactly what symptoms are due to the lack of folate...

 

[PeterPositive]

It could be folate, but it could also be B12 which is very much involved in any nerve-related symptoms. And it could also be both.

It's not easy to assess the status of both via ordinary blood tests. Low values of those nutrients in the blood typically indicate a deficiency but "ok values" mean very little, more often than not.

Have you taken any B12 recently?

 

[LynnJ]

I had been taking large doses of B12 daily. At first it REALLY helped, but after a few months it seemed to slowly stop working. My blood tests were fairly normal (around 490), although I know they can be deceiving and inaccurate, so I didn't pay TOO much attention to my doctor's assertion that my levels were fine.

I didn't realize I was probably losing folate due to this medication, so I'm not sure if maybe that's why the B12 stopped working (I wasn't taking any folate or other B vitamins with it at first - didn't know any better at the time), or if these symptoms are largely due to a lack of folate rather than B12.

 

[Gondwanaland]

How about B6+zinc+magnesium?

 

[picante]

I had been taking large doses of B12 daily. At first it REALLY helped, but after a few months it seemed to slowly stop working.

What kind of B12?

 

[LynnJ]

Methyl B12. The Jarrow brand actually, which despite terrible reviews here, worked wonderfully for me. 5000mcg daily, but no folate.

I eventually switched to Enzymatic Therapy and lowered my dose.

Yes on the magnesium and zinc. Now that I take a good B-Complex (Jigsaw), I get all the B vitamins.

 

[LynnJ]

Bumping this in hopes of advice. Still confused on whether or not folate deficiency can cause muscle/nerve pain.

 

[PeterPositive]

Bumping this in hopes of advice. Still confused on whether or not folate deficiency can cause muscle/nerve pain.

I had folate deficiency in 2011.
My serum level was 1.04, where the lowest range is 3.5 and I was a mess, I could not get out of the bed. Granted, I was also low on other Bs such as B6 and B12.

Nerves improved very rapidly with the introduction of B vitamins. At the time I was taking regular folic acid, even though I later discovered I have the double MTHFR mutation (677).

Have you ever tested your folate serum level or serum homocysteine?
When my folate was super low my homocysteine was through the roof because I could not use B12, and the methylation was stuck (an important reason to take them together).

 

[picante]

How much methylfolate are you taking now, and how much MeB12? Are you taking AdenoB12?

My experience: I had to ramp up methylfolate before I found out which symptoms were due to that deficiency. (And that induced a need for more potassium.)

The following list, from Freddd, does not include neuropathy. But neuropathy is on nearly every list of B12 deficiency symptoms. And adenoB12 is needed for the nervous system.

Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency

IBS – Steady diarrhea, IBS – Diarrhea alternating with normal, Stomach ache, Uneasy
digestive tract, increased hypersensitive responses , Skin rashes, Increased acne, Skin
peeling around fingernails, Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips, Angular Cheilitis, Canker
sores, Coated tongue, Runny nose, Increased allergies, Increased Multiple Chemical
Sensitivities, Increased asthma, rapidly increasing Generalized inflammation in body,
Increased Inflammation pain in muscles, Increased Inflammation pain in joints, Achy
muscles, Flu like symptoms, Depression, Less sociable, Impaired planning and logic, Brain
fog, Low energy, Light headedness, Sluggishness, Forgetfulness, Confusion, Difficulty
walking, Behavioral disorders, Dementia, Reduced sense of taste, Increase irritability, Loss
of reflexes, Fevers, Old symptoms returning, Heart palpitations, Bleeding easily.

 

[LynnJ]

I'm doing around 500mcg of folate total, and taking around the same amount of B12 as well. I'm trying to go slow here, since I seem to have bad reactions to folate. When I was taking much larger doses of B12 (5000mcg), I struggled a lot with shortness of breath, racing heart, etc. Even when I took potassium it was hard to manage, so I've cut back a lot for the time being.

PeterPositive, so did the folic acid actually work for you? Or did you not start feeling better until you switched to folate/folinic acid?

I haven't had my folate tested. I had my B12 tested a few years back. It was around 480, I think.

 

[picante]

So you're taking 500 mcg of methylfolate? And 500 mcg of Enz. Therapy MeB12. Are you taking any AdenoB12?

Is this the B-complex you're taking?:
https://www.pureformulas.com/activated-b-with-srt-60-tablets-by-jigsaw-health.html

It has a lot of ingredients. One of them is folic acid, which can actually block the methylfolate you're taking. It's what Freddd calls "paradoxical" folate deficiency. This is from Freddd's list of THE 95% REASONS B12 AND FOLATE THERAPIES FAIL:

9) Paradoxical Folate Deficiency - Folic acid is taken which can block at least 10 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called "detox" symptoms. Folinic acid is taken which can block at least 10-20 times as much methylfolate from being active inducing folate deficiency even if methylfolate is also taken. These induced deficiency symptoms are often called "detox" symptoms.

 

[LynnJ]

Yes. A combo of the Solgar brand and Jigsaw Activated B w/SRT, which has folate as Quatrefolic® 5MTHF. What you linked to is a different supplement, also by Jigsaw.

I alternate between MeB12 and AdenoB12.

 

[picante]

I think I found the Jigsaw Activated B:
http://www.jigsawhealth.com/supplements/energy-bundle

Can someone else take a look at this? I'm not that knowledgeable about all these ingredients. If you cannot add and delete things one at a time, it's difficult to know whether an ingredient is giving you problems, whether you have a deficiency of something, or too much of something.

Some people are sensitive to choline bitartrate (brain fog). Some have problems with B2 (it made my inflammation much worse). Some are sensitive to the inactive fillers, and this has the glaze and the PEG in addition to the usual fillers.

 

[picante]

I alternate between MeB12 and AdenoB12.

Have you taken the AdenoB12 for long? Were you sensitive to it when you started? Are you taking any form of L-carnitine?

 

[LynnJ]

I first attempted taking folate (with B12) a while back, and I wasn't taking a B-Complex at the time. It made my pain much worse, so I'm 98% certain my issue is with folate and not another B vitamin.

But I think I'm deficient, soooo... Ugh.

Folic acid doesn't seem to cause any problems for me, but I know it's very controversial here.

 

[LynnJ]

No, no issues with AdenoB12. I've been taking it for a good while. More than 5 months.

 

[picante]

Just to reiterate what Peter said:

It could be folate, but it could also be B12 which is very much involved in any nerve-related symptoms. And it could also be both.

It may just be time to try a bit more of one of these three: methylfolate/methylB12/AdB12. Frankly, I've been so confused about titrating this trio, I can sure relate to your situation. So I'm not the best one to advise you on which to try first, .

And are you taking L-carnitine or LCF or Acetyl L-carnitine? If not, that would hinder your ability to use the AdenoB12.

 

[PeterPositive]

PeterPositive, so did the folic acid actually work for you? Or did you not start feeling better until you switched to folate/folinic acid?

Yes it worked, maybe not as well as methylfolate though. At the time I was so depleted that anything would have worked
The largest improvement arrived when I was able to take higher doses of all the Bs and at that time I had already replaced the synthetic folic acid with the active form.

The problem with folic acid with my mutation is that what is not used/transformed remains unmetabolized and can compete with the other forms... This also shows up in the lab tests, where the folic acid is still high even if I don't take it anymore.

 

[Sherpa]

After supplementing B2, I can now I can tolerate up to 200mcg methylfolate per dose.

If I try 400mcg in one go, I get slightly overstimulated and "stoned" from too many neurotransmitters too fast, can't be broken down. (MAO A problem?).

In many cases after a 200mcg dose, I feel fantastic for about 3 to 4 hours I can feel my body making glutathione, neurotransmitters being made, negative thoughts evaporating. It's this sweet spot where I feel my illness fading away. I feel mentally sharp, alive, etc.

Then, quite suddenly, symptoms kick in. I feel "blurry vision" (as opposed to the visual clarity I get on methylfolate) inflammation, fatigue, mentally slow, slower reaction time. I assume these are signs of paradoxical folate deficiency.

I tried to counteract the "short-lived" effects of methylfolate by taking 100mcg doses at more frequent intervals, I get the same kind of "deficiency" symptoms until I get about 200mcg in me.. then I feel good.

I can manage to time my doses to get through the day pretty easy... but I have thus far avoided taking folate at night due to the energizing effect. At night - like right now - I feel the deficiency symptoms - if that's what they are - because I took the last dose in the afternoon.

Does the body adjust to methylfolate and become less energized by it with time? Do ya'll take doses after dark?

 

[picante]

Does the body adjust to methylfolate and become less energized by it with time? Do ya'll take doses after dark?

Yes, often. And even in the middle of the night, if I get low-back inflammation. But I'm taking about 4.5 mg / day, 1000 mcg at a time.

Then, quite suddenly, symptoms kick in. I feel "blurry vision" (as opposed to the visual clarity I get on methylfolate) inflammation, fatigue, mentally slow, slower reaction time. I assume these are signs of paradoxical folate deficiency.

Thanks for reiterating that. I get these other symptoms a lot, and in my dumbed-down state, I forget what they indicate.