Cobat- homeopathic immune modulator?

[Mary]

And it will be a happy day here, too, when I can wash the kitchen floor! So looking forward to that!

Let's not get carried away here! You made me laugh - thanks!

 

[Gondwanaland]

While I can't picture myself washing the kitchen floor anytime soon I am learning a lot from your experimentation exchage, ladies

don't know if it's related to the beta alanine

Beta Alanine can cause oxalate dump and make you:

pretty achey this morning

although the aches are now almost gone

Your lymph system must be working pretty well

I also take taurine at the same time - I wasn't aware they compete for absorption

Well, maybe this is a reason why I don't tolerate Taurine... If if absorbs my absorption of Beta Alanine from food (never supplemented it), my oxalate metabolims gets even worse

 

[Mary]

@Gondwanaland - I don't think the beta alanine caused my muscle aches - when I overdo it, (which doesn't take much!), I generally start to get achy maybe 8 hours later or so, and by the next morning am going into a crash (PEM). I know the crash is over when the aching stops - I think this is related to lactic acid somehow, and beta alanine is supposed to help with lactic acid threshold and improve athletic performance (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3429803/)

It does increase my energy, which I used a lot of yesterday morning, so was not surprised to wake up achy from overdoing it. I had what I would consider a mild crash today. My crashes used to be much worse and last much longer (several days)

Having said that, maybe there is a component of oxalate dumping in the achiness. To be honest, I don't know anything about oxalate dumping though I've seen several posts about it. How do you know if you have a problem with oxalates? I did just look up symptoms of oxalate dumping and I don't really have any of them, except for achiness which I think is related to lactic acid.

The oxalate dumping reminds me a little of mercury detoxing - this went on for years with me. Many things would trigger a detox reaction, I tried all sorts of protocols, and then somehow I resolved it. I did a separate post about amino acids which I think got my detox system working properly. I wonder if these aminos would help with oxalate dumping - if our bodies use the same detox pathways, regardless of what's being detoxed? Although, what causes the oxalate problems to begin with, and I'm sure there's no simple answer to that.

In any event, I'm glad this thread is educational for you - We are all getting so knowledgeable about esoteric health matters and our own little pieces of the CFS nightmare!

 

[Violeta]

I was just wondering how beta alanine could neutralize lactic acid and found this.
What is actually does is neutralize hydrogen ions.
I don't know, but that second dose today really helped!

http://www.betaalanine.info/

 

[Mary]

I was just wondering how beta alanine could neutralize lactic acid and found this.
What is actually does is neutralize hydrogen ions.
I don't know, but that second dose today really helped!

http://www.betaalanine.info/

That was really interesting - I hadn't realized that it was the hydrogen atoms released by ATP and lactic acid, and not lactic acid itself, which causes all the problems. The article says it can take up to 2 weeks to see results - I felt something the first day! Maybe we are very deficient in beta alanine, which is why it is helping so much. It's still a mystery why we have all these abnormalities - but will take good results anyway for now!

 

[Violeta]

Yeah, very interesting. The beta alanine is taking care of intracellular acidity. I wonder what it prevents besides relieving muscle fatigue. Or should I say, how does that exactly prevent muscle fatigue.

I know that carnosine (beta alanine and histadine) manages copper preventing copper oxidation issues, so I was wondering if the beta alanine worked by chelating copper ions, but it looks as though the histadine does that. So the beta alanine saves the day by neutraling the H+, does that by itself relieve the copper issue? IDK! I had been wondering for some time now if the chasing of copper dysregulation by adding in a lot of antagonists was going at it the wrong way and the cause is actually some sort of acidity and the answer some sort of alkalizer.

And now I'm wondering if this some sort of answer to mast cell degranulation.

I am fairly sure that the Taurox is, as it has calcium channel regulator ability.

 

[Violeta]

This is an study on carnosine that I'd like to add to thread, mainly because I'm wondering about hippocampus involvement in my issues and wondering if beta alanine, taurine, and Taurox are adequate.

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._release_induced_by_oxygenglucose_deprivation

 

[Mary]

Yeah, very interesting. The beta alanine is taking care of intracellular acidity. I wonder what it prevents besides relieving muscle fatigue. Or should I say, how does that exactly prevent muscle fatigue.

I know that carnosine (beta alanine and histadine) manages copper preventing copper oxidation issues, so I was wondering if the beta alanine worked by chelating copper ions, but it looks as though the histadine does that. So the beta alanine saves the day by neutraling the H+, does that by itself relieve the copper issue? IDK! I had been wondering for some time now if the chasing of copper dysregulation by adding in a lot of antagonists was going at it the wrong way and the cause is actually some sort of acidity and the answer some sort of alkalizer.

And now I'm wondering if this some sort of answer to mast cell degranulation.

I am fairly sure that the Taurox is, as it has calcium channel regulator ability.

I don't know anything about beta alanine and copper and am too tired right now to check it, but it may be very promising. However, I just googled beta alanine and mast cell and got this hit which looks very interesting:
http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._release_induced_by_oxygenglucose_deprivation

I tried to sign up for free at researchgate.net to get the whole article, but it kept asking me if I had authored various articles - I clicked at least 50 times, saying I had not authored any article but it just kept going and I finally gave up. I know there are people on this board who have terrible mast cell problems. I know next to nothing about it, but it appears that beta alanine may be helpful.

And I don't know anything about calcium channel regulation and taurox (there's so much I know nothing about!)

I am beginning to wonder if I do have some oxalate issues. I took 2 grams of beta alanine today (in divided doses) and had pretty good energy but am achy now, and don't know if it's achiness from overdoing it, or perhaps, as @Gondwanaland suggested, oxalate dumping, or a combination thereof - will see how I feel tomorrow.

The beta alanine definitely is improving my energy but I do end up achy afterwards - more puzzles to solve!

 

[Mary]

This is an study on carnosine that I'd like to add to thread, mainly because I'm wondering about hippocampus involvement in my issues and wondering if beta alanine, taurine, and Taurox are adequate.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/5783021_Carnosine_attenuates_mast_cell_degranulation_and_histamine_release_induced_by_oxygenglucose_deprivation

Okay, I am tired - I just realized I just posted the same link you did - I hadn't noticed.

I keep thinking there must be a central cause of our dysfunction. I feel like I am plugging holes in a dike, patching things up here and there, but not getting to what is making all the holes. At one time my body worked okay. I know that's the $64 million dollar question - what is making all the holes - but we're sure learning if nothing else!

The beta alanine is very intriguing, I will have to do some more reading on it.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Mary, you might get some insight from reading this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...a-probiotic-solution.37927/page-2#post-604155
and this
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders/

and do you remember this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...tabolism-and-oxidative-stress-pathways.37861/

BTW we need to improve lymphatic clearing when dumping oxalates
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bains-dérivatifs-cold-water-therapy.15574/

 

[Mary]

@Gondwanaland - thanks again! (for the article too) - I will take a look at your links above when I am fresher, this is all new to me - I wish I could insert additional RAM into my brain

 

[Mary]

@Mary, you might get some insight from reading this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...a-probiotic-solution.37927/page-2#post-604155
and this
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/the-role-of-oxalates-in-autism-and-chronic-disorders/

and do you remember this
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...tabolism-and-oxidative-stress-pathways.37861/

BTW we need to improve lymphatic clearing when dumping oxalates
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/bains-dérivatifs-cold-water-therapy.15574/

Okay - I will now work on reducing oxalates! I don't have any symptoms (that I'm aware of) of excess oxalates; however, I also have nothing to lose by working on this, and maybe a lot to gain. Interestingly (or not), my primary source of greens is spinach .....

Thanks so much @Gondwanaland - you've finally got my attention on this issue!

I did begin to wonder last night if my achiness and fatigue after taking beta alanine was low potassium, because that's what happens to me when my potassium tanks, and it seems any time anything increases my energy, it also increases my potassium requirements. So I'm going to take extra potassium and see if it diminishes the achiness which will probably hit later. BTW, when I woke up this morning, to my surprise, the achiness was gone. Who knows why!

I really appreciate all your information and time you have taken on this

 

[Mary]

@Gondwanaland and @Violeta - Izzy - I skimmed the full article you provided which both Violeta and I linked above. I think it may be promising for people with mast cell problems - at least definitely worth looking into! Here's a summary:

ABSTRACT Carnosine (beta-alanyl-histidine) is a naturally occurring dipeptide that has been characterized as a putative hydrophilic antioxidant. The protective function of carnosine has been demonstrated in neuronal cells under ischemic injury. The purpose of this study was to investigate the effects of carnosine on oxygen-glucose deprivation (OGD)-induced degranulation and histamine release from mast cells. Cultured mast cells were exposed to OGD for 4 h, and then the degranulation was observed immediately by microscopy. Histamine release was analyzed by high-performance liquid chromatography (HPLC). OGD caused degranulation of mast cells, and increased histamine and lactate dehydrogenase (LDH) release. Carnosine (at a concentration of 5 mM) alone did not produce any appreciable effect on degranulation, histamine, and LDH release from mast cells under normal condition, but significantly inhibited the degranulation, histamine, and LDH release of mast cells induced by OGD. These results indicate that carnosine can protect mast cells from degranulation and histamine release and it may be an endogenous mast cell stabilizer in the pathological processes induced by ischemia.

Carnosine attenuates mast cell degranulation and histamine release induced by oxygen–glucose deprivation - ResearchGate. Available from: http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._release_induced_by_oxygenglucose_deprivation [accessed Jul 15, 2015].

Hopefully someone with a scientific background could translate this But I think get the gist of it. Since CFS has disruptions in oxygen and glucose metabolism, maybe this is why some people with CFS have mast cell problems, and it may be that beta alanine, a carnosine precursor, would help them. There have been other posts about beta alanine helping to reduce PEM, and it is helping both Violeta and me with energy.

@Violeta, thanks to you for first bringing this to my attention - I think I would have overlooked it otherwise, and thanks to you @Gondwanaland for providing the full text! Interesting collaborative effort

 

[Violeta]

Thanks for the whole article, Izzy, and that's a good summary, Mary! Most people don't feel like going through a whole study, (like me). I've been wondering if my morning headaches are from oxygen deprivation, I might take some beta alanine tonight before bed. I took my last capsule of carnosine this morning.

Yes, a wonderful collaborative effort!

 

[Mary]

FWIW, I upped my potassium today and didn't get the achiness I've been having. I also only took 1 gram of beta alanine, but even so I was getting aches with 1 gram before.

But I just remembered something else - I started taking folinic acid the other day. Metafolin greatly increased my need for potassium, so the folinic acid might be the culprit affecting my potassium and not the beta alanine, or maybe both are - I try to do one thing at a time and watch for how I do, but this fell through the cracks ... in any event, I think the extra potassium really helped - whew!

 

[Violeta]

FWIW, I upped my potassium today and didn't get the achiness I've been having. I also only took 1 gram of beta alanine, but even so I was getting aches with 1 gram before.

But I just remembered something else - I started taking folinic acid the other day. Metafolin greatly increased my need for potassium, so the folinic acid might be the culprit affecting my potassium and not the beta alanine, or maybe both are - I try to do one thing at a time and watch for how I do, but this fell through the cracks ... in any event, I think the extra potassium really helped - whew!

That's very good news, Mary. Amazing that you figured it out, really.

 

[Gondwanaland]

What kind of potassium you take, @Mary ?

 

[Mary]

That's very good news, Mary. Amazing that you figured it out, really.

Actually, it should have been the first thing I thought of - I've been through this several times before .... and each time I swear that potassium will be at the top of my list for fatigue and aches until I forget again One of these days I'll get it down (maybe! )

 

[Mary]

What kind of potassium you take, @Mary ?

A combination of potassium gluconate and low-sodium V8. The low-sodium V8 has 900 mg. potassium in an 8 oz glass. However, I've slacked off drinking it for more than a week though I've kept on taking the potassium gluconate, around 1000 - 1200 mg. of that a day.

I initially tried potassium citrate but it irritated my bladder and seemed to contribute to a bladder infection, but I've had no problems with the gluconate.

 

[Violeta]

My Taurox bottle is almost empty! I can hardly believe it. I just looked through the thread to see when I got it....July 2nd. Only 19 days so far, so it might last a couple of more days. I guess I'll order another bottle. It's not cheap!