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"Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: What’s in a Name" - Neurology Now

snowathlete

Senior Member
Messages
5,374
Location
UK
And how would we show it without dying and having an autopsy?
There are various scans and perhaps other tests too? I wonder if anyone has had such scans (positive or negative)? But we also don't have convincing autopsy studies showing it in sample patients who have died either. So wanting my disease name to be factually correct how can I be happy with the term? If I had tests or compelling studies that showed it then I'd be happy - and so would many in the medical community. If that happened it would be great. As in the example here, they don't believe in the name because they haven't seen evidence to back it up and neither have I.
 

jimells

Senior Member
Messages
2,009
Location
northern Maine
So wanting my disease name to be factually correct how can I be happy with the term?

Do MS patients care if the name is correct? How many know what is a "sclerosis", assuming they can even spell it? (I had to look it up)

I don't care if the name is factually correct or not. I just want biomedical research and eventual treatment. Changing the name won't gain us more research dollars. Changing the policy of no research will.
 

snowathlete

Senior Member
Messages
5,374
Location
UK
Do MS patients care if the name is correct? How many know what is a "sclerosis", assuming they can even spell it? (I had to look it up)

I don't care if the name is factually correct or not. I just want biomedical research and eventual treatment. Changing the name won't gain us more research dollars. Changing the policy of no research will.

If MS was called something inaccurate as CFS then yes I think they would care. Likewise, I think they would care if it was called something that resulted in the medical community not believing in it.

That aside, I want the same as you, and I prioritise those things above what label we have. But in my defence this is a thread about the name. The reason people are talking about it in Neurology Now and suchlike is because currently we have two poor names in use - one unproven that the medical profession dismiss and the other dismissive, leading the medical profession to dismiss the patient. I would argue that changing the name might well give us more research dollars actually...But I would also argue that we won't be successful in changing the name until we have made progress in research. I don't think it is possible to win the argument for an ME label, if at all, on current evidence, so I guess my point is not to waste time on that but to push for more research regardless of whether you believe ME is the correct label or not.
 

Dolphin

Senior Member
Messages
17,567

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I don't care if the name is factually correct or not. I just want biomedical research and eventual treatment. Changing the name won't gain us more research dollars. Changing the policy of no research will.
I have been saying this for years, at least with respect to medical research, but with the caveat that research definitions do matter.

There are political and social aspects to the name though.
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
There are political and social aspects to the name though.
In my opinion the most important aspect is that the name is historically tied to a specific well defined clinical entity. To change the name risks losing that important distinction and conflates it with other similar syndromes e.g. CFS, SEID, etc.
 

ballard

Senior Member
Messages
152
Name 5.png
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
In my opinion the most important aspect is that the name is historically tied to a specific well defined clinical entity. To change the name risks losing that important distinction and conflates it with other similar syndromes e.g. CFS, SEID, etc.
We know the definition is tighter. However we do not know that, for example, the 1934 cluster outbreak was the same disease as the 1955 cluster outbreak. Nor do we know if sporadic ME is the same. There is a lot of data to suggest ME as we now define it is two or more different diseases, though this could be two manifestations of the same disease. As the science evolves this last point keeps being reinforced by the 60-40 to 70-30 split in biochemistry.

Its the science that will define it eventually, so that means political and scientific will, plus funding, plus careful research. We will then most likely get a new name/s. We may then have no say in what those are.

Its also the case that using ME is not going to fix the problem. That ship sailed a long time ago. ME is most widely considered a psychiatric problem. Changing the name does not change that. We have to fight that separately, something that is one of my main goals .... psychobabble is not science. Politically we will find, and history has shown this, that changing the name will just mean creating another thing to equate together. What we have, politically and psycho-medically, is psychoCFS=CFS=ME=SEID. Just changing the name is NOT enough. We need to actively fight this association. ME is already so deeply anchored into a CFS equivalent that its very hard to fight, no matter the evidence we have.

Further, even a well defined ME cohort is far too heterogeneous. We have three potential axes of variation, and there may be more. They are severity, duration, and symptom clustering (degree of caseness). However there is no guarantee that the same severity, same duration, and same symptoms, mean the same disease, unless the are all from one single cluster outbreak.

CFS cohorts are typically even more heterogeneous of course, which means even harder to study properly.

ME is still the best name we have though. Its just not the thing we should have on the top of the list of what we are fighting for. Its also that using a good research definition, and getting funding and scientific interest, are near the top of the list.

If we presume, for example, that the autoimmune theory is correct, then we get an even worse situation. Two thirds autoimmune, one third not. However it currently looks like the two thirds autoimmune is actually a cluster of multiple diseases with similar symptoms.

It is interesting that Nancy Klimas is now willing to say that low NK function is a diagnostic biomarker, though she also admits that nearly all path labs are incapable of properly running the tests. Its not only that they need state of the art technology, they only have eight hours to do the testing before it becomes invalid. Take the blood, set the timer, go. Most labs take longer than that, so the tests are invalid.

Now, if we can prove that low NK function is a diagnostic biomarker, and prove it fits a particular (or newly modified) ME definition, and make clinical testing widely available, then we have something to fight for. This already has a name though, one that is used for ME in Japan, Natural Killer Cell Dysfunction Syndrome, or something similar.