Volunteer opportunity: Organizing Phoenix Rising articles
This section contains all the articles that have been published by Phoenix Rising over the years. As you will see if you browse here, some of the articles are outdated--either the research has been superseded or retracted or the article features an event or campaign that is now in...
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Choline on the Brain? A Guide to Choline in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome

Discussion in 'Phoenix Rising Articles' started by pattismith, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    288
    I did buy extra strength Prevagen at authorized seller CVS. Paid $120 for two bottles. Did nothing for me but still could help other people. I called them up and got refund check for full amount. Just had to give them the numbers at bottom of both bottles. So no financial risk to try.
     
  2. prioris

    prioris Senior Member

    Messages:
    443
    Likes:
    288
    I think the sensitivity to choline problem has something to do with inflammation in the NMDA, sodium potassium pump. I also have an over-methylation problem also. What I suggest is concentrate on playing with the following supplements

    Lithium Orotate
    Magtein (Magnesium Threonate)
    Taurine
    DHA

    https://neurohacker.com/formulation/neuro-minerals

    All 4 supplements affect the problem area in various ways especially the first 2 in the most effective form.

    The Lithium (5mg tablets) and Magtein (source natural ) get absorbed quickly. Many feel it's affect quickly. Take each around 30 minutes apart. I take one of each 3 times a day. I also play with increasing dosage.

    Taurine is another one to add. Take in morning and evening.

    DHA will help with inflammation in brain. I take a high absorption DHA water soluble brand that uses vesisorb. I can take it with just water also. Play with dosage.

    Best to spread out dosage so it doesn't get depleted. May help with symptom control better I think. Give it some time, maybe a couple months to evaluate it's efficacy because things have to heal. Of course take on empty stomach.

    I also have to be careful of potassium and calcium due to neuron excitatory affect. I think when I took only the magtein, it healed something and I wasn't as sensitive to these as much including choline. These may address the over methylated problem too.

    I would like to add liposomal glutathione but it causes me to get over methylated. If you don't have that problem then maybe add this too.

    The nutrients need to address the neuron dysfunction problem.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2018
    Wayne likes this.
  3. YippeeKi YOW !!

    YippeeKi YOW !! Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,049
    Likes:
    2,523
    Second star to the right ...
    Your views are definitely NOT heresy @andyguitar, and mirror my own. Or maybe we're both heretics.

    For my money, THIS is the real, totally invented-for-profit, heresy:
     
    andyguitar likes this.
  4. SherDa

    SherDa

    Messages:
    59
    Likes:
    112
    I think it seems pretty likely that inflammation causes depression for many people. Obviously, malnourishment or altered amino acid metabolism could probably cause it too.

    According to the Linus Pauling Institute at Oregon State University, inflammation destroys B6 and/or alters its metabolism. B6 is needed to make serotonin (and hence melatonin), the catecholamines (dopamine, epinephrine and norepinephrine) and GABA. I think there are multiple ways that B6 is used up by inflammation, but it's been a while since I've been down this rabbit hole, so I'll just say that I think it is worth checking out some of their cited sources. For example, here is the conclusion from citation 47:

    upload_2019-1-5_15-43-50.png

    I do think the entire page on B6 is worth reading: https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/vitamins/vitamin-B6#reference47

    Then, to complicate the picture more, low B6 could cause sideroblastic anemia, and iron is needed to hydroxylate the aromatic amino acids for neurotransmitter production, so low iron can also cause depression.

    Not only could low B6 cause low iron, but inflammation can cause sequestration of both iron and zinc, which would seem to further the risk of depression.

    As to the cause of inflammation? At this point, I'm still heavily in favor of gut microbiome as one of the top causes. I think evolution would totally select for pathogens that have the ability to destroy B6 and/or alter the cholinergic antiinflammatory pathway, and there seems to be plenty of evidence accumulating that gut bacteria affect mood. Bacteria with the ability to cause depression can influence the host's dietary choices. (Comfort food, anyone?)

    I know there are other possible contributors to inflammation though. For Americans, for example, there are way too many foods that contain proinflammatory oils, a lot of nutrient-poor/low-fiber/high-acellular carbohydrate food choices, and lack of dietary antioxidants (and maybe people need regular polyphenol consumption for a variety of reasons, including the beneficial effects for the gut microbiome). Then, there's also the possibility of vitamin D deficiency. I guess I'm speaking from the point of view of someone with severe depression who also needs high intake of B6 to control it. (I take B6. I feel better. It wears off. I take more. What's happening to all of the B6 I take? I don't know what to blame besides inflammation.)

    I suppose that's enough rambling for now. Inflammation is so easy to ramble on about though. I frequently hear about how inflammation is killing people, but as far as I can tell, for most of the general population in America, not a lot of action is being taken to reduce inflammation. Most of us are just whistling past the graveyard on that front.
     
  5. andyguitar

    andyguitar Senior Member

    Messages:
    744
    Likes:
    1,279
    South east England
    Some interesting points from you @SherDa. When it comes to bad diet causing a range of problems, well yes sure it does. Cant answer your question about B6 but I am pleased to hear you have something that helps.
     
    YippeeKi YOW !! likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page