ME/CFS and the Change of Seasons: How Does This Affect You?
The advent of autumn can hit Jody Smith pretty hard. She's learned a few ways to lessen the damage every year. How do you handle the change of seasons?
Discuss the article on the Forums.

choline deficiency or choline insufficiency syndrome

Discussion in 'General Treatment' started by aquariusgirl, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes:
    584
    I am wondering if I have choline deficiency and it's just another nutrient deficiency.. as it seems to be very common in our population.

    Or do I have what Steven Zaisel calls choline insufficiency syndrome?

    Sorry no test results.. but took 30,000 mg.. and felt immediately better.. well being..mild cognition boost...

    The thing is I have fatty liver.. which was discovered by accident.. and I have longstanding gallbladder issues.

    Several US found nothing except a dilated bile duct.. but I refused a HIDA scan because of expense.

    Wondering about how to proceed?

    Several people.... patients of Klinghardt..say Phosphatidly Choline IVs gave them "their brains back."
     
    pamojja likes this.
  2. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes:
    584
    So in reviewing the ultrasound I had done that a doctor later told me showed fatty liver.. what it actually says is this:

    "There is a hepatic hyperechoic lesion measuring 13x 19 x 8 mm, differentials include focal fatty infiltration, focal nodular hyperplasia, and haemangioma. Suggest further investigation to exclude liver pathology."

    That was 2014. I wonder if it's fatty liver or something else...Gee, I suppose I should have another ultrasound>?
     
  3. nanonug

    nanonug Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,664
    Likes:
    1,136
    Virginia, USA
    If you have fatty liver, you may respond to polyenyl-phosphatidylcholine. Common brand (in the US, at least) is PhosChol.

    TMG, as a metabolite of choline, might also be worthy of consideration.

    Megadosing on choline is potentially harmful due to production of TMAO.

    Probably wise. But this should obviously be done by a gastroenterologist.
     
  4. aquariusgirl

    aquariusgirl Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,605
    Likes:
    584
    :eek: hmm. yes it would be good to have confirmation of 1) fatty liver and 2) choline deficiency.

    I heard Johns Hopkins does testing for the latter. Complicated stuff.
    TY!
     
  5. joejack102

    joejack102 Senior Member

    Messages:
    131
    Likes:
    74
    Read all my posts about taking Choline supplements. It gave me LONG TERM fatigue that I am STILL working on figuring out how to reverse.
     
  6. Mary

    Mary Moderator

    Messages:
    4,717
    Likes:
    9,958
    Southern California
    Choline deficiency is associated with fatty liver and there are many other possible causative things. Here's a good article, although it doesn't mention choline (though many other articles do): https://draxe.com/liver-disease/

    30,000 mg is a very high dose of choline. I've been taking lecithin from Swanson Vitamins for several years, two 1200 mg. softgels a day. I noticed after taking it for about 2 weeks my memory had improved and had no ill effects. So I've been taking it ever since. Here's one product that has lecithin and phosphatidylcholine: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-supreme-lecithin-phosphatidylcholine-300-sgels

    If your gallbladder is not working properly, that obviously will affect your liver. Years ago I had trouble with my gallbladder and my chiropractor who does muscle testing gave me AF Betafood by Standard Process which helped a lot. Eventually I learned I needed to take betaine HCL with pepsin with meals as I had low stomach acid, which may have been the root cause of my gallbladder problems. My gallbladder is fine now. A simple test to see if you are low in stomach acid is to dissolve 1/4 teaspoon baking soda in 8 ounces of water and drink it on an empty stomach. If you don't burp within a few minutes, it can be an indication of low stomach acid.

    I also had to do a liver detox - I'd had a job years ago where I had heavy exposure to chemical solvents which screwed up my liver. After the detox I started taking milk thistle (also good for fatty liver) and betaine HCL with pepsin and my digestion overall is very good now. Low stomach acid is extremely common in people with ME/CFS.

    So I think there are several things you can try, to help yourself - educate yourself about a good diet for your liver and gallbladder if you haven't already done so, look into the possibility of low stomach acid, possibly try choline, maybe look into a liver detox too. It would be great if you had a doctor or naturopath or even a chiropractor who does muscle testing who could help you with this.
     
    Wayne likes this.
  7. kangaSue

    kangaSue Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,117
    Likes:
    1,337
    Brisbane, Australia
    You might be approaching it from the wrong aspect.

    Autonomic dysfunction could be the issue causing both fatty liver and gallbladder dysfunction and if you have Autonomic Neuropathy, you're looking at more a defect in acetylcholine signalling as well as a possible problem with reduced blood flow to any of your splanchnic organs when this involves cardiovagal dysfunction as that then can affect cardiac output and regulation.

    Supplements such as Huperzine A or Parasym Plus can be beneficial here. It makes sense to me too that @Mary found AF Betafood supplement by Standard Process helped with gallbladder function as the beet ingredient in it is a good vasodilator to increase blood flow.

    I am in a number of GI forums and you would be surprised by the amount of people who have a problem with low gallbladder ejection fraction who go on to have even greater GI dysmotility problems after having the gallbladder removed. For reasons unknown, it seems to be a trigger for more severe autonomic dysfunction.

    Some autonomic testing might be the order of the day, sweat tests of TST and QSART for sudomotor dysfunction and Tilt Table, Heart Rate Variability to Deep Breathing and Valsalva Maneuver for cardiovagal dysfunction.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25614616
     
    ryan31337 likes this.
  8. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Likes:
    3,614
    Ashland, Oregon
    Just ran across a rather scholarly report on choline published by the Linus Pauling Institute on Oregon State University's website (link below).

    Here's the summary:

    Summary
    • Choline is a vitamin-like essential nutrient and a methyl donor involved in many physiological processes, including normal metabolism and transport of lipids, methylationreactions, and neurotransmittersynthesis. (More information)
    • Choline deficiency causes muscle damage and abnormal deposition of fat in the liver, which results in a condition called nonalcoholic fatty liver disease. Genetic predispositions and gender can influence individual variation in choline requirements and thus the susceptibility to choline deficiency-induced fatty liver disease. (More information)
    • The recommended adequate intake (AI) of choline is set at 425 milligrams (mg)/day for women and 550 mg/day for men. (More information)
    • Choline is involved in the regulation of homocysteine concentration in the blood through its metabolite betaine. There is currently no convincing evidence that high choline intakes could benefit cardiovascular health through lowering blood homocysteine. Besides, elevated blood concentrations of trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO), generated from choline, may increase the risk of cardiovascular events. (More information)
    • The need for choline is probably increased during pregnancy. Case-control studies examining the relationship between maternal choline status and risk of neural tube defects (NTDs) have given inconsistent results. It is not yet known whether periconceptual choline supplementation could confer protection against NTDs. (More information)
    • Animal studies have shown that choline is essential for optimal brain development and influences cognitive function in later life. However, in humans, there is not enough evidence to assert that choline supplementation during pregnancy improves offspring’s cognitive performance or that it helps prevent cognitive decline in older people. (More information)
    • Recent intervention studies have found that supplementation with citicoline (a choline derivative) may be useful to limit neurologic damage in stroke patients and improve retinal function in some glaucoma patients. It remains unclear whether citicoline could be used in the treatment of dementias and in head trauma patients. (More information)
    • De novo choline synthesis in humans is not sufficient to meet their metabolic needs. Good dietary sources of choline include eggs, meat, poultry, fish, cruciferous vegetables, peanuts, and dairy products. (More information)
    • Excessive consumption of choline (≥7,500 mg) has been associated with blood pressure lowering, sweating, fishy body odor, and gastrointestinal side effects. The tolerable upper intake level (UL) for adults is 3,500 mg/day. (More information)
    Although choline is not by strict definition a vitamin, it is an essential nutrient. Despite the fact that humans can synthesize it in small amounts, choline must be consumed in the diet to maintain health. The majority of the body's choline is found in specialized fat molecules known as phospholipids, the most common of which is called phosphatidylcholine (1).

    Contents
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2018
    joejack102 likes this.
  9. joejack102

    joejack102 Senior Member

    Messages:
    131
    Likes:
    74
    Thank you so much, @Wayne! I'm still reading all this, but it is very helpful!!! Thanks for keeping my situation in mind and for understanding!
     
    Wayne likes this.

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page