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CFSAC Meeting Dec. 3rd & 4th, 2014

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
Anita Patton: Describing and defining ME/CFS.

Complaining that much research is left out of the P2P review.

Thanks to CFSAC members for donating time to helping us.

Talking about Cimarron.
 

Nielk

Senior Member
Messages
6,970
They cut Liz' line while presenting and can't seem to get get her back.:eek:
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
A loud beeping started, and a patient (Ms Willow) was cut off soon afterward. They can't get back to her, apparently.
 

Wally

Senior Member
Messages
1,167
More "technical giltches" with phone lines at 10:45 (PST). Speaker making public comment was disconnected.
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
@Valentijn - I really appreciate all your posts here. I am too ill myself to put any thoughts together.
I'm pretty exhausted too, and missed a couple of the patient callers due to food arriving :D Anyhow, I'm less interested in the rest, and probably won't be reposting much. Seriously, why would we care what the P2P on "Pain" is doing? :meh:
 

Nielk

Senior Member
Messages
6,970
They almost broke off for a break...leaving Liz Willow waiting on the line. They had to be reminded to get back to her and give her a chance to giver her testimony....a half hour after she started. No respect for patients.
 

Nielk

Senior Member
Messages
6,970
Patient/advocate Bob Miller is up next speaking about the P2P workshop.
 

OneWaySurvival

Senior Member
Messages
115
Location
USA
Did anybody else notice that AHRQ sent a brand new delegate to this meeting?

Keep in mind that the AHRQ "evidence-based" report is very much at the center of the controversy. The AHRQ report states explicitly that "fatigue" was the only symptom considered when compiling decades of faulty research focused on fatigue, and ignoring decades of science-based research focused on the neuro-immune disease M.E.

So, how very convenient that the AHRQ dept would send a "wet behind the ears" delegate to this meeting who has the excuse of "plausible deniability" of not knowing a thing about the report!

Thankfully Sue Levine or Gary Kaplan made the point that the AHRQ report did not even list an author, which exposed that dirty little secret. Who wrote that piece of garbage? Apparently they (or the AHRQ colleagues, whoever they are) will be in attendance at next week's P2P workshop, and they will listen to advocates' and experts' concerns then about their garbage report. Yeah right. What do you bet nobody has the guts to attach their name to the report?

The NIH rep Mariela Shirley seems to be reciting government Talking Points verbatim and keeps saying the AHRQ report will only be "one little sliver" of the pie that is used to direct the IOM in their redefinition efforts. However, as Sue Levine rightfully pointed out, when something is in writing (such as the AHRQ report), it carries a lot of weight.

I hope the CFSAC members who represent the ME community will state their TOTAL OPPOSITION today to the AHRQ report, the P2P workshop, and the IOM redefinition sham.

Next up...Robert Miller. This should be interesting. He is trying to play role of peacemaker. But does NIH want peace?
 

OneWaySurvival

Senior Member
Messages
115
Location
USA
Let me answer my own rhetorical question. Does NIH want peace? Well, judging by the way HHS/NIH fought Jeanette Burmeister's FOIA request, the obvious answer is No.

I respect Bob Miller, his advocacy efforts, his personal suffering, and his intelligence. But, in this case, I think he is being naive. The HHS says they will take into account our input. I DON'T BELIEVE THE HHS. We need to strongly call out the HHS on their misdeeds related to their attempt to redefine our illness, going against the experts recommending CCC, and using a ridiculously faulty approach of non-expert clinicians and a biased AHRQ report to define our illness.

As far as "shaking" the stigma, I say that's not gonna cut it. We need to "destroy" the stigma.

Edited to Add: I think I made a mistake yesterday on this post in calling Bob's approach naive. He is one of our most devoted patient-advocates (hunger strikes, skydives, and many other huge efforts), and he deserves more respect than that. I honestly don't know enough about his approach to call it naive, and I would actually like to hear more about his strategy in his own words on this thread, or to be pointed to somewhere I can learn more from him. I sense that he is calling for as many advocates as possible to speak up and have a say. I'm just not sure HHS is going to care, and I worry they will find a way to use it against us, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have our say. I appreciate Bob's participation in the CFSAC meeting, I'm sure at a personal cost of his health.

He made a call for patients/advocates to attend the P2P workshop next week so that their voice can be heard (I think he said we should try to make public comments). I agree that many patients should attend, but I personally think it would be better if some are inside listening/commenting, and many more are outside protesting.

Thank you, Bob, for your advocacy efforts. The more we all pitch in and do something, the more awareness will reach the public, the sooner we find answers.
 
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OneWaySurvival

Senior Member
Messages
115
Location
USA
Wow, I agree wholeheartedly with Donna Pearson. She is the new patient advocate that has replaced Eileen Holderman (who also did a wonderful job for us).

If you can go back and listen to this meeting, I highly recommend listening to Donna Pearson. She presented around 2:50pm-3pm, right after Robert Miller. She even quoted Dr. Ian Lipkin and the unbelievable comment from one of the NIH panelists who told him they declined his research grant because they believed M.E./CFS is a psychosomatic illness.

Earlier today, Donna also challenged Mariela Shirley at the NIH to answer some great questions about the AHRQ report and the P2P workshop. I did not look at the time, but it was probably 1 hour into the meeting today.

We need unity as a patient community, as much as possible, to be effective in having our concerns incorporated by the HHS. I personally support the approach Donna Pearson is taking at this meeting, and I recommend we unite around her.
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
just dropped in and heard this:
some lady:
"are we all agreed that P2P is a potentially positive thing with certain modifications"
other guy:
"it is a good thing [...] we're stuck with it"

lady from before:
"do we think it's worthwhile having a comittee work on the CCC"?
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
just dropped in and heard this:
some lady:
"are we all agreed that P2P is a potentially positive thing with certain modifications"
other guy:
"it is a good thing [...] we're stuck with it"

lady from before:
"do we think it's worthwhile having a comittee work on the CCC"?
Yeah, we're in the bullshit period now. Some hard questions are being asked by committee members, but Levine is dodging them for the most part.
 

leela

Senior Member
Messages
3,290
who is this guy who is all about "we missed our opportunity to have any sort of effect or influence"?
and just waiting until it's all done to offer a commentary after the fact?
 

Kati

Patient in training
Messages
5,497
HRSA (Health Resources and Services Administration) is getting involved in looking into "chronic fatigue". It's not really their usual area - they deal with vulnerable groups mostly, and some other stuff.

And she kept saying "chronic fatigue", never ME or CFS.
Deborah Fillinger from HRSA calls it "Chronic Fatigue Secretary's Advisory Committee"

A minimum requirement for these folks representing agencies is that they get through a sensitivity workshop, and know about the name of the disease, ME, and to understand that chronic fatigue is at the very least derogatory.
 

Wally

Senior Member
Messages
1,167
Another "technical glitch" with the audio for this webinar when Donna Pearson was speaking. (12:40 pm PST)
 

Hope123

Senior Member
Messages
1,266
[This is a double post moderators -- I accidentally posted to the thread about CFSAC registration but this message is better suited here.]

If you are having problems with the livestream, contact CFSAC staff at the links below and also Seamon Corporation. It's important to document problems even if you report them retrospectively as it creates a record.

I've had problems listening the last 2 days -- especially during Donna Pearson's presentation as well as her comments. This is concerning to me because she is the sole patient advocate. I have asked DHHS to post her Powerpoint and possibly a transcript online. If you agree with me, tell CFSAC staff also.

With the slides, the resolution is TERRIBLE. One solution is to ask CFSAC staff to post the Powerpoint slides of speakers online so they can be accessed later.

CFSAC DHHS:
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Advisory Committee (CFSAC)
Office of the Assistant Secretary for Health
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
Hubert H. Humphrey Building, Room 712E
200 Independence Avenue SW.
Washington, DC 20201
(202) 690-7650
204
(202) 690-7650
204
(202) 690-7650
204
(202) 690-7650 (Voice)
(202) 401-4005 (FAX)
cfsac@hhs.gov (Email)

Seamon corporation:
Corporate Headquarters 9001 Edmonston Road
Suite 200
Greenbelt, MD 20770
Phone: 301-577-0244
204
301-577-0244
204
301-577-0244
204
301-577-0244
Fax: 301-577-5261