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CFS Unit at Kings College Hospital (UK)

frog_in_the_fog

Test Subject
Messages
253
Location
California
Hang on, hang on - are places like King's College *still* advancing the view that ME is "a complex of false illness beliefs and avoidance behaviour" ? I thought they had at least in public withdrawn from that position ?
Since the 90's the King's College CFS treatment legacy has been to explore the use of CBT to mend the ill ways of patients in hopes of curing them. Didn't work then, doesn't work now...

http://simonwessely.com/Downloads/Publications/CFS/183.pdf
 

Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
It's not just K's C though is it with regard to pushing CBT (not just referring to ME now) The UK likes CBT -- a lot--for all kinds of ills.
And some Scandinavian countries too I think. I don't know how effective it is for other health/mental health issues but I think it's been overrated in general.
 
Messages
20
Location
london
I was a member if the group in question and also had CBT at the CFS unit at Kings. Both about 10 years ago. ...

The group was mainly practical, social and really supportive. They gave good advice about things like benefits etc. I only went one meeting though and there was a wide spectrum of types of people and disability.

I think that in these days of interconnectivity things have changed. Patients are MUCH more clued up. This may also apply to the South East London group. Maybe their membership has changed too. Google any aspect of M.E. and Phoenix Rising is always on the first page. I suppose they've woken up.

Ten years ago I was desperate and clueless....During CBT, 'encouraged' to ignore my symptoms when I should have trying to get answers.

Last month, finally diagnosed with POTS I may be able to get some relief with drugs.
But still it's years wasted.
 
Messages
2,125
Trying to answer my own question, this might explain why CBT is being recommended left.right and centre:

In 2004, NICE conducted a systematic review of the evidence for the effectiveness
of interventions for depression and anxiety disorders. This showed that cognitive
behavioural therapy (CBT) was an effective first line treatment for a large amount of
common mental health morbidity, but that it was not readily available.
The evidence also showed that CBT could produce impressive recovery rates, and in many cases
better prevent relapse, compared with medication alone.
The programme is expected to generate net savings in excess of £300 million by
March 2015 through:

NHS savings through reductions in healthcare usage

Exchequer savings through helping 75,000 people move off welfare benefits

Economic gains to employers through reduced sickness absences.

By the end of 2016/17, a net financial benefit of £4,640 million is expected as the
provision and utilisation of accessible evidence based therapies increases. This will
be due primarily to prevention and early intervention particularly encouraging
reductions in sickness absence”.


ALSO:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/215808/dh_123993.pdf
see page 16 'Costs and savings associated with CBT provision for people with MUS (Medically unexplained symptoms)'
 
Messages
15,786
Unfortunately, that evidence is probably flawed or even fraudulent.
It's pretty flimsy in the NICE review of ME/CFS CBT research, and poor-quality research is frequently over-rated. Such as a trial with fatigued psych patients (half of them on long-term meds) being counted as a success for CBT for ME because VO2max increased. That was despite VO2max was pretty normal already at the start of the trial.

And then there's the frequent appearance of the useless Oxford criteria (simple chronic fatigue), despite NICE describing PEM as an almost-mandatory symptom. I also seem to recall papers getting points for having a long-term followup, even if results were negative or made uninterpretable.
 
Messages
2,125
Unfortunately, that evidence is probably flawed or even fraudulent.
You're missing the point of what I posted; the quote is from a government document as is the link.........
it's all designed to ultimately save the state money.
 

frog_in_the_fog

Test Subject
Messages
253
Location
California
The programme is expected to generate net savings in excess of £300 million...
By convincing people to accept and live with their illness, I can see how this can be a savings. I spent years suffering silently without medical care or a clue as to what was wrong with me. The savings are to the system, but what about all our lost wages? If you look at the cost to the livelihood of an individual, the amount must be huge! For me alone I roughly estimated the total impact of my illness at $750K.