• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

CFI Spinal Fluid study from Lipkin and Hornig is out.

nandixon

nandixon

Senior Member
Messages
1,092
Much too soon to say if it'd be useful, given we haven't even seen the full paper yet, but there's an anti-eotaxin-1 (CCL11) monoclonal antibody called Bertilimumab that's apparently being looked at for inflammatory bowel disease. It might even be exactly the wrong thing for ME/CFS, but at least it exists, though.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bertilimumab

http://immunepharmaceuticals.com/product-portfolio/bertilimumab-draft/

http://immunepharmaceuticals.com/im...se-ii-clinical-trial-in-ulcerative-colitis-2/
 
beaker

beaker

ME/cfs 1986
Messages
773
Location
USA
adreno said:
Interferon gamma inhibits eotaxin:

Th1-derived cytokine IFN-γ is a potent inhibitor of eotaxin synthesis in vitro


Some things that might help with TH-1 shifting, IFN-y production and eotaxin reduction:

Licorice Flavonoids Inhibit Eotaxin-1 Secretion by Human Fetal Lung Fibroblast in vitro

Effects of Astragalus membranaceus in promoting T-helper cell type 1 polarization and interferon-gamma production by up-regulating T-bet expression in patients with asthma
Click to expand...

I had my blood thrown in w/ a RA study many years ago and my cytokine panel was very similar to RA patients, Except that I had NO gamma interferon. Not even a trace. And my dr. thought that odd.
Well if it does inhibit ecotaxin that makes sense. Interesting. I wonder if I am still completely lacking.

Thanks for the info and food for thought.
I can't believe I am having such an emotional reaction to this. I've been around long enough that I don't get excited anymore. I've heard "this is it" so many times over the last 30 years I have become jaded.
This does feel different on some level though. We will see.
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
I still don't believe that the immunesystem is the key driver in ME/CFS, it is secondary e.g. cortisol can suppress and shift the immune system to the state(allergic) Hornig suggest.
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
If i remember correct this spinal fluid was form the patiënts of Daniel Peterson. He had the spinal fiuid stored a long time ago from patiënts of the outbrake of Lake Tahoe many years ago. This is not a representing group, there is selection bias.
 
wastwater

wastwater

Senior Member
Messages
1,271
Location
uk
I have bursts of eosinophilia,am I in
The wiki keywords of interest on ccl11. G proteins and links to schitzophrenia( the dark horse not often mentioned but I feel should be along with the regulars Autism and MS)
Is something like simian CMV or chlamydophila pecorum or adenovirus (just guesses) jamming a metabolic pathway
 
Last edited:
N

natasa778

Senior Member
Messages
1,774
Gijs said:
...cortisol can suppress and shift the immune system to the state(allergic) Hornig suggest.
Click to expand...

And the other way around. In that 'feedback relationship between the immune system and the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis' the influence would go both ways. Chicken or egg. If you dig into 'immune is downstream of HPA dysfunction' trench you need to uncover the primary cause of chronic HPA dysfunction. Which might well lead you back to immune-mediated insult/s in many cases :)
 
R

Reverie

Messages
14
Can anyone explain the implications of this study in simple terms?

The first study of cytokines from these researches implied autoimmunity and differences in treatment required between long and short duration patients?

Does this imply more than that? Or is it adding to the previous study and making it more robust? Does this mean drugs used for MS, RA and other similar diseases may be useful in ME?

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.
 
beaker

beaker

ME/cfs 1986
Messages
773
Location
USA
Reverie said:
Can anyone explain the implications of this study in simple terms?

The first study of cytokines from these researches implied autoimmunity and differences in treatment required between long and short duration patients?

Does this imply more than that? Or is it adding to the previous study and making it more robust? Does this mean drugs used for MS, RA and other similar diseases may be useful in ME?

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.
Click to expand...
The press release at Medicalxpress implies this. With of course the caveat that more needs to be known blah blah blah.
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
natasa778 said:
And the other way around. In that 'feedback relationship between the immune system and the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis' the influence would go both ways. Chicken or egg. If you dig into 'immune is downstream of HPA dysfunction' trench you need to uncover the primary cause of chronic HPA dysfunction. Which might well lead you back to immune-mediated insult/s in many cases :)
Click to expand...

I still think that ME/CFS patiënts are primary in a state of overdrive fight- or flight response. This stress response is NOT due to psychologial factors but something else (physical). This system can't calm down anymore. That is why the immune system burns out..... There isn't any immune disease known that leads to the opposite. This is unique for ME/CFS. We can't handle no stress at all. But there are more roads that can lead to the egg.... :)
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
The studies of Lipnkin/Hornig will never be replicated, like every study of ME. So, there is no breakthrough and nothing will be changed at this point in the medical community. They still think we are grazy and it is all in the mind even the IOM report isn't going to change anything. In Europe the doctors 'laugh' about this report and don't take SEID more serious then CFS/ME. For them it is the same mental illness. So what did we have? Nothing.
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
Valentijn said:
Again, and again, and again. If some scientific discovery doesn't fit with Gijs' pet hypothesis, it must be the science which is wrong :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It is the other way around, i don't care if i am ''wrong''. I don't want to upset you.... most people are obsessed by the immune system theory. I am just being critical. Some people don't want to hear that.
 
L

lansbergen

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
Gijs said:
If i remember correct this spinal fluid was form the patiënts of Daniel Peterson.
Click to expand...

Yes some samples are from Peterson.

The study population was comprised of ME/CFS case (n = 32) and
comparator/control (n = 59) subjects who had contributed CSF samples
to biobanks at either Sierra Internal Medicine (SIM), a private internal
medicine clinic in Incline Village, Nevada, owned and operated by Daniel
Peterson, MD, or the University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) Brain Bank
Click to expand...

Collected between 1994 and 2012.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.