Can't shut my brain off to sleep

[Aileen]

I've never heard of Tizanidine so I looked it up. Glad I did. According to Wikipedia it belongs to a class of meds called centrally acting (meaning CNS, so neurons likely involved) alpha 2 (a2) andrenergic agonists.

from Wikipedia: "It is used to treat the spasms, cramping, and tightness of muscles caused by medical problems such as multiple sclerosis, ALS, spastic diplegia, back pain, or certain other injuries to the spine or central nervous system. It is also prescribed off-label for migraine headaches, as a sleep aid, and as an anticonvulsant. It is also prescribed for some symptoms of fibromyalgia."

Since I have migraines and have tried most migraine preventatives, I'm happy to learn of this. Also my current muscle relaxant is now only available in generic which does not seem to be working. Hmm...

It says that alpha 2 receptors are involved in the sympathetic nervous system. It looks like this class of drugs mimics the actions epinephrine (adrenalin) and/or norepinephrine (noradrenalin) in various ways. Agonists increase or inhanse the effect.

There is a list of other drugs in the same class so perhaps you should look at others in that category. Maybe you can find one that will work like the tizanidine but without the problems you are having.

Perhaps someone with better knowledge of these drugs could comment.

 

[minkeygirl]

Didn't know. I can't read what you wrote or if I could wouldn't remember.

Try baclofen. Also a muscle relaxant. Used to amp me up. Doesn't seem to be doing much of anything now.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

There was a thread on another forum about what you do for sleep. One guy wrote this: "I make chamomile tea in a cast iron teapot, then I bash myself in the skull with it". It still cracks me up!

Haha I burst out laughing. Thanks for that.

 

[minkeygirl]

I still laugh every time I think of that!

 

[Aerose91]

I have the same problem as you but mine is due to benzo withdrawal damage. I took ativan for sleep for 10 days 2 years ago and i never recovered. I went into SEVERE withdrawal and though it is better 2 years later, i still have "weapons grade insomnia" as you speak of. i am awake completely redlined all night.

I would recommend being very careful with the benzos if you decide to go that route.

 

[minkeygirl]

I didn't sleep more than 2 hours a night for a year after I took 4 months titrating off 1 mg of Klonopin. So I know.

If I do do a benzo, it would only be halcion which has a 3 hour half life and is easy to get off, if you mean not sleeping for 3 day is easy. But I love benzos too much so I'm not sure I even want them around. That would be as a last resort.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

I have the same problem as you but mine is due to benzo withdrawal damage. I took ativan for sleep for 10 days 2 years ago and i never recovered. I went into SEVERE withdrawal and though it is better 2 years later, i still have "weapons grade insomnia" as you speak of. i am awake completely redlined all night.

I would recommend being very careful with the benzos if you decide to go that route.

You took a drug for ten days and still have withdrawals 2 years later? That is nuts!

I've been taking klonopin 1mg for a while now. Whenever i've had to stop it for an extended period of time I have never had any sort of a withdrawal. I guess i'm a lucky one with that.

I've only ever been addicted or had withdrawals to two things. Cigarettes and Welbutrin (only took this one for 4 days, and it made me feel like a heroin addict coming off).

 

[minkeygirl]

Protracted withdrawal can happen but that does seem odd. How much were you on? Ativan is one of the nastier ones though. Worse IMO than Klonopin or Xanax to get off of.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

Protracted withdrawal can happen but that does seem odd. How much were you on? Ativan is one of the nastier ones though. Worse IMO than Klonopin or Xanax to get off of.

I've stopped 1mg of Klonopin cold turkey for a period of 6 months with absolutely no problems. I've taken Ativan 1mg before. I've actually still got one of those pills in a bottle somewhere. I've only had to up the dose one time from .5mg to 1mg because of tolerance, but I've been on 1mg since last May without needing anymore.

When we thought my problems were "mental" I was sent to Sierra Tucson which is a drug rehab place and mental health facility. I saw so many people coming off benzos and the horrors of tapering that came with it. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with that. I've got enough problems as it is!

 

[minkeygirl]

@Soundthealarm21 Then you were lucky as hell.

 

[Aerose91]

Yes only 2 weeks. I believe the
problem was that A) they strted me.on 2.5 mg when id never taken benzos before, B) i cold turkey'd because they told me that it was safe within that time frame, and C) i was taking hydrocortisone at the same time for severe adrenal fatigue and later came to find out that steroids are cross reactive with benzos.

The first couple months post c/t i slept about 5 hours per week, had 24 hour long panic attacks, thick derealization, was huddled in a corner uncontrollably shaking, only saw black and white, helleucinated uncontrollably, had psychosis (i thought i had been abducted from earth and put on another planet), couldnt tell the difference between hot or cold, lights and sounds were so harsh i had to sit silently in a blacked out room with sunglasses on, and an unexplanable, unrelenting anxiety.

I have a list somewhere of my symptoms and it was somewhere around 80, those ones i listed are just a few that i remember off the top of my head.

Although im better, many still persist today 2 years later,the worst being insomnia. Its not just insomnia though, i dont just lay awake, i lay in full blown fight or flight mode for 6-8 hours so by the time i get out of bed in the morning im so much more worn out than i was when i went to bed. i have basically been in a perpetual state of sleep deprivation this whole time but i cant take anything because i am so ungodly sensitive to everything now. I had an immunologist give me a nasal spray with epinephrine in it last year and i went right back into acute withdrawal with all the anxiety, tremors, halleucinations, fear, etc. for about 2 months. So yeah, i think i can figure out why i got M.E.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

Oh my gosh that is so horrible. I wish I knew what to say

 

[Leopardtail]

For me it is adrenaline/cortisol issues often caused by blood sugar imbalance. It has taken me 3 and 1/2 years to balance my blood sugar in a way that benefits my sleep. I also HAVE to go to sleep either watching a nature program or the Simpsons.

Sometimes I'll wake up at 7am and can't get back to sleep so I have a snack and off to sleep I go. Same sometimes happens when still struggling to sleep at midnight.

I have followed every recommendation suggested for balancing blood sugar and my individual way works for me but the other ways didn't!

I've also recently incorporated activated charcoal before bed - it's meant to mop up toxins which could excite yr brain.

What method do you use to stabilise blood sugars Plum?

 

[Leopardtail]

Yes only 2 weeks. I believe the
problem was that A) they strted me.on 2.5 mg when id never taken benzos before, B) i cold turkey'd because they told me that it was safe within that time frame, and C) i was taking hydrocortisone at the same time for severe adrenal fatigue and later came to find out that steroids are cross reactive with benzos.

The first couple months post c/t i slept about 5 hours per week, had 24 hour long panic attacks, thick derealization, was huddled in a corner uncontrollably shaking, only saw black and white, helleucinated uncontrollably, had psychosis (i thought i had been abducted from earth and put on another planet), couldnt tell the difference between hot or cold, lights and sounds were so harsh i had to sit silently in a blacked out room with sunglasses on, and an unexplanable, unrelenting anxiety.

I have a list somewhere of my symptoms and it was somewhere around 80, those ones i listed are just a few that i remember off the top of my head.

Although im better, many still persist today 2 years later,the worst being insomnia. Its not just insomnia though, i dont just lay awake, i lay in full blown fight or flight mode for 6-8 hours so by the time i get out of bed in the morning im so much more worn out than i was when i went to bed. i have basically been in a perpetual state of sleep deprivation this whole time but i cant take anything because i am so ungodly sensitive to everything now. I had an immunologist give me a nasal spray with epinephrine in it last year and i went right back into acute withdrawal with all the anxiety, tremors, halleucinations, fear, etc. for about 2 months. So yeah, i think i can figure out why i got M.E.

Aerose,

have your levels of Cortisol & Thyroid hormones been checked?
Do you ever fever when infected?
Do you have infective symtpoms?

L.

 

[Aerose91]

@Leopardtail yes i have all my hormones checked regularly. My cortisol and thyroid are slightly low but not clinical hypothyroid or addisons level. I got M.E. from encephalitis so i never felt fluish like a lot of people describe since i never had the flu. I have swollen lymph nodes and feel slightly fluish sometimes but those are far from my worst symptoms.

@Soundthealarm21
Thats very kind of you, nothing to do really, the damage has been done and i just have to hope that in the next few years i can make a little more of a recovery.

 

[Leopardtail]

okay, just wondered about the Cortisol due to your high blood sugar and sleeping issues...
BTW was your Cortisol checked just in the morning, or was it checked several times?
Some people with ME have lowered morning, raised at night, messes up sleep cycles and reverse it..

 

[Aerose91]

I do 5 times/day saliva tests. its highest in morning, low afternoon and evening and climbs a bit again at night. Not to crazy levels tho and i used to sleep much better than this even with adrenal fatigue.

The crazy blood sugar problems ive been having recently have been because of a period of overexertion, it changed something- what i dont know- but ive been like this ever since. Per is my usual, all of my PEM setbacks have been permenant.

 

[Mya Symons]

I have found a few supplements that work well for me to shut off the brain. Maybe they'll work for you?:

1) Jarrow GABA Soothe (from Vitacost.com, 30 Caps)
Ingredients
a. Gamma-aminobutyric Acid (GABA) (PharmaGABA); 100mg
b. Theanine (Suntheanine); 100mg
c. Sensoril (Ashwagandha extract) (roots/leaves) (Withania somnifera); 225mg

2) 5-HTP & Melatonin ( Swanson’s, 30 Caps)
Ingredients
a. L-5 HTP (L-5 hydroxytryptophan) (Griffonia simplicifolia seed extract); 50 mg
b. Melatonin; 3 mg

3) Phosphatidyl Serine Complex (Vitacost, 120 Sgels)
Ingredients
a. SerinAid® (Standardized to 20% phosphatidylserine); 1000 mg
b. Phosphatidylserine; 200 mg
c. Phosphatidylcholine; 90 mg
d. Phosphatidylethanolamine; 20 mg

 

[Leopardtail]

I do 5 times/day saliva tests. its highest in morning, low afternoon and evening and climbs a bit again at night. Not to crazy levels tho and i used to sleep much better than this even with adrenal fatigue.

The crazy blood sugar problems ive been having recently have been because of a period of overexertion, it changed something- what i dont know- but ive been like this ever since. Per is my usual, all of my PEM setbacks have been permenant.

Aerose,

I am seeing quit a lot of questions about blood sugar regulation on the threads here but my answers are spread across many threads. The answer you have given here and the question you posted about diabetes may well be related. In answer to the question in your diabetes post I created a thread and posted a link to it. Would you mind pulling together the information here, and the question about diabetes in that thread?

I am going to try and start pulling this information together so its easier for people to benefit from it. It's an area where the quality of research has been poor, hence it takes some explaining.

Can M.E. cause diabetes/pre diabetes? My diet has always been phenominal, even years before ever getting M.E. but after my last period of overexertion i got hit immediatly with diabetes symptoms. i had blood tested in the hospital and they found i had hypoglycaemia (which i already knew) but no diabetes. However, i keep a glucose monitor and my glucose is constantly a bit high now, in the range of 110 fasting and 145 after eating- ive never been that high. i also lay in bed at night with terrible nerve pain in my legs and constant nausea and headache. These things all hit me immediatly and have not subsided. My brain function has also taken a huge hit.
Can pancreas or liver damage be the cause of this? Or mitochondria damage? I have done nothing to provoke this diet wise so am wondering what someone with diabetes and M.E. would think about the situation.

Your diabetes question above.

Aero,

this is a problem that has questions scattered across threads. I have created a group for this issue. Please post your questions there and I will answer. We need to get the material on this together.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?xfa-groups-thread/i-need-help.820/&page=1#post-12999

I would like to encourage anybody with diabetes or blood sugar questions to post there.

B.

Link to thread above.
.

 

[xrayspex]

did you say if you ever tried remeron? i took that one summer like 12 years ago and man that knocks you black out -out, to where u might not get up til the next aft....

i also have weird things happen from valtrex....dont know what you do about that--didnt cause insomnia but pain flare