Invisible Illness Awareness Week 2016: Our Voices Need to Be Heard
Never heard of Invisible Illness Awareness Week? You're not alone. Jody Smith sheds a little light to make it more visible
Discuss the article on the Forums.

Can I replace proteins with essential amino acids?

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS Discussion' started by optimist, Apr 23, 2015.

  1. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Hi!

    As explained in this thread I have serious problems handling proteins, and I am not very well versed in nutritionology, or what ever it is called, but I have understood that proteins are essential to life. My question to you more knowledgeable:

    Can I purcahse a product like this (pure essential amino acids) and survive on that in stead of meat, eggs and beans?

    Please say YES :thumbsup::nervous:
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  2. amaru7

    amaru7 Senior Member

    Messages:
    226
    Likes:
    121
    well protein consists of amino acids so my guess would be yes. But it woulseem be good if you go into what you mean By you can't handle proteins.

    It could be low stomach acid or gh deficiency for example. The first involved in protein breakdown and latter in synthesis.
     
    optimist likes this.
  3. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

    Messages:
    5,255
    Likes:
    32,048
    You probably could, but it would be expensive and you would need to make sure it actually had what was needed (there is no way of knowing from the ad). What would go through your gut would be pretty much the same as if you ate eggs and beans and stuff. It would probably taste foul and boring. It is very likely either to give you diarrhoea or constipation. It is hard to see what the point would be but people with serious gut disease survive on amino acid preparations. As I said, though, I have no idea if this one is nutritionally bona fide.
     
    optimist, Beyond and halcyon like this.
  4. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,882
    Any protein powder which you can tolerate would probably work just as well, and maybe better. I've never had any reaction to hemp powder, so we keep it in the cupboard for when I have trouble getting other sources of protein or I'm feeling too sick to want to eat real food.

    The problem with pure amino acid blends is that you're getting odds amounts of just some proteins, rather than getting it in a form which more closely resembles real food. There are a lot of amino acids other than the ones included in that product, and it's really not a substitute for proteins in the diet.
     
    optimist and Beyond like this.
  5. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    778
    Murcia, Spain
    What Valentijin said about protein powders reminded me... You know what´s on my supplement radar lately? Vital Whey. This is the same stuff than Immunocal and Immunopro. Gluthatione overload my friend!! And immune enhancement, maybe even autoimmune regulation. You could try that. I sure will.

    It will be consensus I bet that taking aminoacids and trying to avoid food protein alltogether is a bad idea.

    If you have food intolerances that can be labelled as leaky gut as well and that ties nicely with CFS for some. Avoiding protein is not an option, you need to heal your gut/get a proper digestion. Mind you, I am not saying is easy, my autoimmune reactions keep going after years of trying stuff. You can avoid normal food for so long, and its not like taking supps and doing super strict diet gives me a huge improvement, it just takes away my face eczema and makes me less depressed but until my gut is not healed I wont be healed thats clear.
     
    optimist likes this.
  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,882
    I took Whey for a while, but started reacting to it with mild swelling :(
     
  7. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Thank you for your replies everyone. I see that I had posted the wrong link, and it is now updated.

    @amaru7 As described in my link, I get awful neurological reactions (=torture) all over my body. It is so bad that I cannot manage to eat enough proteins. I tried this morning eating 140g minced meat with 8x650mg Betaine HCL and 3xEnzymes, but I still get reactions. Now I even react to the little that is in veggies.

    @Jonathan Edwards If you click on Nutritional Information you'll see what's in there. One serving of 15g is about one day's need of essential amino acids according to this table on Wikipedia. So one 500g bag should last about one month... not really that expensive. I do not care so much about the taste right now, just surviving...

    @Valentijn and @Beyond my problem is that I seem to react to every proteine, and my tolerance is decreasing day by day...
     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards "Gibberish"

    Messages:
    5,255
    Likes:
    32,048
    500gm a month does not sound much amino acid/protein. Getting enough essential amino acids may not be the same as getting enough total protein equivalent. What are you going to do for calories - pure cane sugar and pure vegetable oil? Otherwise you are likely to get more protein from whatever you use for calories then this I would think. It seems a bit illogical to me to be honest.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  9. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    I really do not know what to do @Jonathan Edwards... I am fumbling in unknown territory and all I know is that I am more and more unable to eat, so I am desperately trying to find solutions... I guess that today I have eaten less than 1500kcal, and about 30g protein, and I have had severe reactions.

    My best take I suppose will be to get my gut up and running again ASAP.
     
    Beyond likes this.
  10. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    778
    Murcia, Spain
    It totally sounds as if you have autoimmunity attacks going on with certain foods. Interestingly enough, the central leaky gut theory is that undigested/semidigested protein from faulty digestion and a comprommised intestinal barrier gets into the bloodstream and that makes the immune system go bonkers.

    I´d HIGHLY recommend that you start taking at least one Digest Gold with each food. This is one of the few very useful supplements that I have tested for my "gut crusade". Others are: very high dose propolis extract, high dose of chlorella and stepped and blended japanese sencha green tea (the one I am taking right one that apparently is taking away my cholinergic urticaria, yay). Juicing raw veggies helps too.

    I have become a bit of lil´expert in the leaky gut field from reading literally hundreds of abstracts and pdfs, trying a lot of supps and diets an of course this wonderful forum and others. So in a nutshell you want the inflammation to go down and the digestion to normalize. If your intestines are inflammed they become intolerant to foods BECAUSE they hinder digestion but then again when you eat food the intolerances feed the inflammation so it can get worse over time if you don´t do the correct things. Leaky gut is serious business, it leads to an autoimmune thyroid or any other autoimmune condition. Again, my tests showed I had very high thyroid antibodies three years ago when I wasn´t dieting at all so sadly all of this is very real. Taking glutamine and stuff like that isn´t very helpful from my experience and logic, antinflammatory and immunomodulatory supps are far more crucial.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
    South likes this.
  11. Valentijn

    Valentijn Senior Member

    Messages:
    14,281
    Likes:
    45,882
    It sounds unlikely that the problem is "protein" in general. Your body is full of protein! There might be specific foods causing problems, but if it was an immune reaction that should be to specific proteins from specific animals, not all protein.

    Have you examined your supplements and meds closely? Can a doctor check you out for general GI problems?
     
  12. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    @Beyond Well, I have tried glutamine, glysine, licorice root extract, broth, sauerkraut, plus-plus for about 1,5 motnths now, but it has not altered the situation. So, perhaps the inflamation pathway that you suggest is nessecary. So, would you say that chlorella, propolis extract and japanese sencha green tea are the best for getting inflamation down?

    @Valentijn I guess it is as Beyond says, that I get undigested or semi-digested protein in my blood causing some serious stirr... If I eat any type of meat I get reaction, I also tried pure pea protein and got reaction. But, foods that ain't have much protein to show for like salad, apples, pears and such are fine. Avocados used to be fine, but now I react to them as well. One avocado has about 5g of protein.
     
  13. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    778
    Murcia, Spain
    Well, taking the three will be very expensive, and chlorella specifically is such a strong immunostimulant that it can backfire (made my urticaria worsen which suggest its a Th1-driven thing, maybe), but yeah any of them work, I guess the three together would be very powerful. I am just taking the tea at the moment and favour it over the others, because it controls the urticaria and gives me drive which its a huge plus.
     
  14. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    @Beyond I got propolis and sencha tea now, but how much do you reccomend taking?
    I realise that there's caffeine in the tea which might not be a good idea as I understand that caffeine is doing bad to the intestines...
     
  15. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    778
    Murcia, Spain
    That was fast, optimist. Good for you bud! Sorry that I did not told you what brands worked for me, the best propolis extract (I used only two) was by Y.S. Bee Farms and the sencha I buy it organic in bags of 500 grams from https://www.japaneseteafarm.com/sen...ams-bulk-packages-loose-leaf-teas-20-off.html

    It lasts like 3 months using 5 grams so it is not expensive at all. I let the tea stay in recently boiled water for 15 minutes or so and then blend it all with a blender. I drink the mixture , which by the way don´t even bother trying to put honey in, because it is very bitter. If I take more than 5 grams I get all jittery and anxious because of the caffeine. Otherwise, studies show its a potent gut repairing agent (green tea).

    So for intestinal inflammation I found that taking 6 caps of 500 mg 2x of propolis extract (supposed to equal 1000 mg) was a very quick acting antinflammatory because it literally stopped some serious pain caused by a reaction to raw honey. Its pretty rare for me to find a supplement that behaves like a drug, they normally do nothing lol

    Remember that you need to be on an strict leaky gut diet as well. You´ll need to research that and personalize it. For example, a lot of leaky gut diets say coconut is a heavenly food but it is actually the food I am most allergic to and gives me pain instantly.

    Now I am gonna brag a bit and tell you that this stuff I am sharing with you for free is something I have been looking for years, and if the doctors in which my parents wasted thousands would have told me these things I would be much better right now. But then we have to realize when your illness is so damned complex and personal the solutions are also very rare and individualized. No one can walk that path for you, but sometimes what worked for one works for two.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    Mary likes this.
  16. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Thank you!

    No time to lose :)

    Not to worry about not telling me the exact brands. Norway has quite poor selecion, but on the other hand it is often holding pretty good quality. I must say I am a little bit reserved about the caffeine, but I will investigate further. I have tried one cup now (but I tossed the leaves...)

    How is 6 caps of 500 mg 2x = 1000 mg ?? :) Sounds a bit more like 3g :)

    Coconut fat is one of my main sources of getting up the daily kcal amount, so I am eating quite a fair ammount. But, it has not bothered me, so I guess with me it is fine.
     
  17. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    I see that propolis is anti yeast. Would you know if it also is fighting Saccharomyces boulardii?
     
  18. Beyond

    Beyond Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!

    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes:
    778
    Murcia, Spain
    No idea, but if it fights candida is good in my book. And it does, I read a couple of studies about it back in the day.

    Yeah I meant 3 grams! :D

    Good luck with lowering inflammation and fixing digestion, don´t starve! :)
     
  19. optimist

    optimist Senior Member

    Messages:
    432
    Likes:
    300
    Norway
    Yes, candida is very free to go :) The reason I am worried is that I have little IgA in my intestine and I use
    Saccharomyces boulardii to bring it up. That's why it would be bad if it kills it off... there are so many things to consider :)

    The other thing is that it contains quercitin which is known to lower cortisol, which I am already low in, but I suppose the amounts aren't too high... never know though!
     
  20. IreneF

    IreneF Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,552
    Likes:
    2,575
    San Francisco
    One of my docs said pre-digested proteins "taste like dog food." (I wonder how he found out.)

    Fermented soy foods such as miso and natto might be easier to digest. (Natto takes a bit of getting used to.) They have a reasonable amount of protein that's already been broken down by bacteria.
     

See more popular forum discussions.

Share This Page